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The most popular 70's colour set

 
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The most popular 70's colour set

Post by colourmaster » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:09 pm

Hi everyone
I'm just sitting her watching my itv60 dvd that Mrs P gave my for Christmas on my G22K550 /05 and just wondered what the best selling colour set was in the 70's .
Regards.
Gary.

g8-1.jpg

g8-2.jpg

g8-3.jpg

 
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Re: the most popular 70's colour set

Post by crustytv » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:27 pm

Its going to be difficult to say without having accurate records, then there's always going to be peoples recalled personal slant/preference. Leaving that aside and going on sheer chassis numbers produced and hence placement in peoples living rooms, I would have to plump for the BRC/Thorn 3000/3500. That chassis was to be found in so many popular models of that period. I would suspect however that the Philips G8 may actually hold the title with a run from 1970 - 1977, it has to be the longest chassis run of that period.

 
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Re: the most popular 70's colour set

Post by ntscuser » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:23 am

Philips overtook Thorn-BRC as the UK's biggest set maker in the early 1970s.

A survey of Which? readers in the late 1970s showed that just four makes were overwhelmingly popular with their own readers. These were Philips, Panasonic, Grundig and Bang & Olufsen. (Yes it surprised me too).

 
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Re: the most popular 70's colour set

Post by Cathovisor » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:42 am

Reading the above: what was it that Stanley Kalms said about seeing the Saturday buyer of a British TV set back in the shop on Monday....?

 
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Re: the most popular 70's colour set

Post by crustytv » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:23 pm

Just having a thought on Gary's ponderings........

When colour launched In 1967 the cheapest colour TV you could buy was the 19" Baird 705, it still cost a whopping 245gn and the stand was an additional cost. This was still a significant expenditure that the British public could not afford, the vast majority for the period 67-77 would be renting. You've only got to browse through the set prices to realise this http://www.radios-tv.co.uk/?page_id=16925

Then of course there were the inevitable faults that would arise so renting meant those hassles were all covered by the rental company. Therefore maybe the question should be "what was the most popular rental set in the 70's", not the bought set, as the person who could buy would be in an affluent minority. Oh and not forgetting if you purchased a set you might have wanted to extend your Colour CRT guarantee from 1 year to 4. This would have been an additional fee of £7 for 19" and £8 for 25"

1968 Trader Journal wrote:At the moment most colour sets are bought for cash or on HP. The top echelon of society to whom a cheque of £350 is a mere bagatelle is the main market. As time goes on, it is expected the rental will take the lions share.

Which of course became true, therefore I don't think buying a colour TV for the masses really came about until the mid 80's, again perhaps influenced by the countries changing economic status, the booming 80's. This perhaps coinciding with a greater influx of cheaper foreign sets with higher reliability, all contributing to the inevitable demise of the rental trade. Although they probably had a last hoorah with VCR's, so perhaps the buying question would be, "what was the most popular set to be bought in the mid to late 80's. For that I would plump for the Fergy TX range.

Fact Snippet 1: Radio Rentals in 1967 were only managing to manufacture 400 colour TV's per week and hoped by 1968 to have doubled that. Combined with all the other British manufactures output, it was estimated that only 130,000 sets were sold in 1968 and about, 180,000 in 1969. Remembering the Britain of the 70's was in tumultuous economic mayhem.

Final Thought: Regarding the "Which" survey, I've no doubt the foreign sets were more reliable than British but I seriously doubt the average punter could have bought say a B&O, even In 1975 they were beyond mere mortals to buy

Fact Snippet 2:
B&O 3000 £368
B&O 4000 £422
B&O 5000 £458

That's some serious wonger back then!

Of course Just some ponderings on Gary's ponderings.

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by malcscott » Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:35 pm

I never knew Radio Rentals made ctv sets. I understood they used BRC/Thorn sets, Malc.

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by crustytv » Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:40 pm

You're thinking of later sets Malc, in my post I specifically refer to 1967 and 1968. At this time Radio Rentals designed and produced the 700 series chassis..... RCA inspired and a superb one in my opinion, best colour picture I've personally seen on a 1st gen CTV, with all frequency gratings resolved up to 5.25

Later, 69/70 onwards, Radio Rentals did indeed use BRC/Thorn as you know.

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by malcscott » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:01 pm

I thought Baird made them? I only ever worked on a handfull of them. A bit of a rats nest i thought, Malc.

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by crustytv » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:09 pm

malcscott wrote:I thought Baird made them?

Baird ceased to exist way back Malc, long before the 60's. It was purely a badge name and was owned by Radio Rentals who purchased it in the 60's. RR designed the 700 series chassis.

Edit: Baird was taken over by Scophony in 1948. Hartley Electronics acquired the name in 1954.1960 Radio Rentals acquired the Baird Company. Radio Rentals changed the name of its manufacturing subsidiary in Bradford, Mains Radio Gramophone, to Baird Television, to emphasise its position in the manufacturing of televisions

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by crustytv » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:14 pm

malcscott wrote:A bit of a rats nest i thought, Malc.

I have to say in my limited experience the 700 was one of the most engineer friendly sets I've worked on. The entire chassis can be disconnected via plugs, access is superb and with the whole chassis is easily removable to the bench, great to service. As for the tripler, a dream to repair as its not potted. The circuit design was odd and I struggled to get my head around parts of it. I assumed it was just me being thick but when John ( jayceebee) saw it he too agreed it did things very differently and owed much towards RCA inspired sets of the time.

As for Rats nest, that mantle in my opinion is most deserved of the G6. That set fils me with dread every time I go near it.

I have four hybrid 1st gen CTV sets, Baird ( RadioRentals) M702T, Decca CTV22CS, Decca CTV25 and Philips G25K502 without doubt the Baird is the best thought out and easiest to service.

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by Till Eulenspiegel » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:42 pm

CrustyTV wrote:
malcscott wrote:I thought Baird made them?

Baird ceased to exist way back Malc, long before the 60's. It was purely a badge name and was owned by Radio Rentals. RR designed the 700 series chassis.

The Baird TV manufacturer we are most familiar with started as the West Yorkshire firm MRG, Mains Radio Grams. Radio Rentals acquired the MRG concern in the early fifties so that they could manufacture their own sets.

Getting back the subject of this topic. I remember in 1975 the high demand for the Philips 550 was the result of a favourable write up about the set in the Which magazine. The factory in Croyden must have been working flat out make enough sets to keep pace with the demand. The 550 was actually introduced in 1973. The Thorn Electrical sets were distributed through various outlets including the Companies own rental and retail shops so it is difficult to determine any figures. I'd say there was more Thorn group sets about than Philips. B & O was hardly mass market brand, nice but expensive.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by Till Eulenspiegel » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:03 pm

A 1930s MRG radiogram. Forty years later under the Baird name the same firm made the 700 series CTV.

Till Eulenspiegel.
Attachments
MRG-2.jpg
MRG1.jpg

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by Cathovisor » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:16 pm

That's an MRG cabinet Till, but it's not an MRG radiogram. It's the bastard child of a Marconi 235 chassis and an MRG 'Pedestal 4' cabinet or variation thereof.

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/mainsradio ... _pass.html
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/marconi_ma ... e_235.html

I actually have an MRG radiogram which has a 3-valve MRG radio chassis in a 'Console 4' cabinet, with a Garrard Record Changer fitted. I also have a clock radio. The distinctive feature on these MRG sets of this era is the dial, produced from a photographic negative and the pointer is a band of light, which is through a little slit in a metal buckle holding a ribbon of black material together. To assist light reflection, the whole chassis is painted a creamy-white and in the case of the 'gram, the dial lights are held in two of those "doll's house" type lampholders.

Luckily, when I got my 'gram it also came with the instruction book and a catalogue :)

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by Focus 2 » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:49 pm

No figures, just memories of what friends and family had in the '70s.
For rental it has to be the Thorn 3000 series with the 8000 17" in the lower price rental category. I never saw one that had been purchased!
For purchased sets the Philips G8 and Pye Hybrid range.
Also seen Decca Bradford and ITT CVC5 but not sure if rented out or purchased.

Didn't know anyone with a GEC set. We had one as a loan set, a 2110 series in 1976.

Brian

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by Till Eulenspiegel » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:29 pm

Hi Catho, the MRG was on ebay. Just as well I didn't buy it. I wouldn't have been all that pleased when I discovered the Marconi/EMI chassis.
So someone had replaced the original MRG TRF chassis with a Marconi TRF chassis.

Hi Brian,
The 8000 series was a good entry model. The Ferguson 3712 and the DER version was rented out for around £1.30p per week. I remember Comet selling the 3712 for £150. About £179 in the traditional retailers.

Till Eulenspiegel.
Last edited by Till Eulenspiegel on Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by nuvistor » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:29 pm

Although we did not have Thorn sets, they must have been one of the largest manufactures, they had plenty outlets to rent the TV's from. Our biggest sellers were Pye/Ekco and RBM range in the early 70's with ITT, Hitachi and Toshiba in the late 70's. Throw in a few Dynatron (Pye or Philips chassis) and Roberts (Philips chassis).
We only started renting in the late 70's when the business was taken over but the make of sets we handled stayed the same.
No idea after 1980 when I left the trade.

Frank

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by Rebel Rafter » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:36 pm

Hi, from RR. Don't forget the Rank A823's, Their production if my memory serves me right went on from late 1969 to sometime in 1975. They were mainly rented out by Granada and the rental versions were usually basic models with dark wood cabinets and mechanical tuners with only four buttons unlike the six button ones on the A640's. There were some sold to the public and these were usually more upmarket with varicap tuners with six buttons, the very late ones even had touch channel selectors and basic remote control. I know because I fixed quite a few of the touch tune models and they usually had either Bush or Murphy brand names on rather than Granada. I had one of the big ones with the controls on the top and the big speaker, it was one of the earlier ones with the plastic mask around the screen and I upgraded it with controls and a varicap tuner from a later model so it became a one off. RR.

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by line sync » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:05 pm

I too remember there being a lot of Rank A823`s around and I also remember rediffusion using them as wired sets .
These wired sets used a completely different i.f panel with out a sound stage.

Robin

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by Studio263 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:52 pm

Early B&O colour sets didn't cost that much more than ordinary ones here, they were just over £400 when the rest were just under. I remember being told that a B&O 3400 (26" 110 Deg. hybrid) cost just £50 more than a 26" G8; considerably better value since the B&O gave a picture not far off what you'd expect from a studio monitor and had at least twice as much in it than the Philips! It was better looking too... The B&O 3000 was a popular choice as it gave the best large colour picture availalbe, the 3400s must have sold well too given the coverage they received in 'Television' magazine.

B&O only became much more expensive in recent years, in the late 60s a Beolit 600 radio (AM/FM transistor) cost about £28 when a Bush VTR103 (also AM/FM but not as well made and needing a more expensive type of battery) cost £29. Bargain!

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by rob t » Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:17 pm

" B&O 3400 (26" 110 Deg. hybrid) cost just £50 more than a 26" G8; "
That was 2 weeks wages quite a bit more expensive!
Rob T

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by Rebel Rafter » Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:44 pm

Hi, from RR. Not only did the B&O hybrids cost a bit more than the G8's but the power consumption and therefore the running cost must've been nearly twice that of a G8, especially the 3400 110 degree model. They had TWO line o/p stages, two transformers, and two sets of o/p valves, and a valve EHT rectifier with no X-ray shielding which is needed at 25Kv. I got asked to fix a 3400 one once and I looked inside and said no chance, this needs to go to a B&O dealer. I didn't have anywhere enough experience at the time to take that thing on. And they had that oddball valve for the luminance o/p, a 12HG7 I think it was which was so hard to find anywhere. And over 100 transistors! They certainly should perform well with all that lot stuffed inside! RR.

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by TVJON74 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:55 pm

I have a B&O 3400 in the 'to do pile' it certainly looks a scary prospect!
The luminance valve can be changed for something else (can't remember what) with a small modification, but it's in the manual.

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by Studio263 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:02 am

Rebel Rafter wrote:Hi, from RR. Not only did the B&O hybrids cost a bit more than the G8's but the power consumption and therefore the running cost must've been nearly twice that of a G8, especially the 3400 110 degree model. They had TWO line o/p stages, two transformers, and two sets of o/p valves, and a valve EHT rectifier with no X-ray shielding which is needed at 25Kv. I got asked to fix a 3400 one once and I looked inside and said no chance, this needs to go to a B&O dealer. I didn't have anywhere enough experience at the time to take that thing on. And they had that oddball valve for the luminance o/p, a 12HG7 I think it was which was so hard to find anywhere. And over 100 transistors! They certainly should perform well with all that lot stuffed inside! RR.


Quite a bit wrong there, not surprising though if you've never owned one or worked on them. I've had mine since the late 80s, its been a great set. The 3400 doesn't have two line output stages as such (that was the 3000 / 3200 / 2600, which had a seperate line output stage and EHT generator), it has a single stage with two transformers that work in push pull. This is done for two reasons, firstly to get enough power to scan the 110 Deg. tube and secondly as part of the picture size regulation arrangement. This works by the EHT being derrived from one of the transformers only but the scan power coming from both, the ratio between them is equal to the amount that the scan has to change to compensate for EHT changes. The GY501 (not a major source of x-rays since it drops only a small voltage when in conduction) is properly shielded if the set is complete, there is an arched cover that fits over it. The 12HG7 is easy to get from the USA, it was quite a popular valve over there.

Here's a list of features the 3400 has that the G8 doesn't, well worth the extra £50 (hardly anything out of £400)

110 degree tube
Dynamic Focus
Active convergence (static and dynamic) fed from an electronically stabilised supply
Active corner correction
NS and EW correction
Colour difference drive
Automatic tracking between colour and contrast controls
Decoder transistors operating at an elevated voltage (60V) for improved linearity
UHF / VHF tuner
Dual high quality loudspeakers (woofer and tweeter on 3400K, twin full range units on 3400SJ)
Seperate bass and treble controls
Loudness compensated volume control
Connections for an extension loudspeaker and a tape recorder

The 3400 was only rivaled in sophistication by the Sony KV-1800UB at the time, then B&O raised the game again with their solid state 4000 model which included the first automatic greyscale correction arrangement (in 1974!).

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by TVJON74 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:51 pm

TVJON74 wrote:I have a B&O 3400 in the 'to do pile' it certainly looks a scary prospect!
The luminance valve can be changed for something else (can't remember what) with a small modification, but it's in the manual.

The 12HG7 luminance amp can be replaced with a PL802 and replace 1R47 with a 12R 3W WW (originaly 27R 5W)

 
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Re: The most popular 70's colour set

Post by Till Eulenspiegel » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:27 pm

The predecessor to the 12HG7 was the 12BH7. In terms of construction the Philips developed PL802 resembles the latter. The American valves have centre tapped heaters, the tap is connected to pin 6 which in the PL802 is one of the screen grid connections, the other is pin 8 which is the same for the 12BH7 and 12HG7.
Much better to buy the correct valve, there seems to be plenty 12HG7 tubes for sale from USA eBay sellers. I noticed one eBay trader in Germany offering the valve.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-12HG7-12G ... XQDnpTYOxn

Till Eulenspiegel.

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