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VCR & Off air signal differences

 
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Re: VCR & Off air signal differences

Post by Michael Watterson » Fri May 09, 2014 12:53 pm

I'm very very fond of my Sony DCR-TRV330E Digital-8
It plays my earlier Analogue 8mm tapes fine (I got the Analogue Camcorder free).

The Analogue camera was one of 2 on a palette of Samsung VHS "returns" (it wasn't Samsung though [edit WRONG, it was]) I was repairing for a friend back in 1997 approx. The dead camera the boards had come loose. The other wouldn't focus, zoom or iris. I was "given" the bad one. :)
I found the alloy block with motors at lens had cut most of the tracks at each corner of flexible PCB/Cable. So with 500W of light, jeweller's monocle and large magnifier on stand I repaired the cable by scratching and tinning the track traces on thin plastic either side of cracks, super glue a very fine piece of tinned wire across crack.
At 3rd attempt and nearly a week I got it all working. Still works today though about 2minutes battery life!

[Edit had to check loft. Samsung MyCam K70 PAL 8mm analogue Video, not a Hi-8]

I bought a big load of 8mm tapes in a Bargain Euro Store at €2 each years ago (2002?). They seemed fine on the Analogue and also seem to work OK for Digital 8mm recording.

Hard to beat a camcorder with good zoom lens for birds in flight vs still camera. I have some lovely Heron footage.

 
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Re: VCR & Off air signal differences

Post by ntscuser » Sat May 10, 2014 5:02 pm

Red to black wrote:The V2000 system was very clever and effectively a quarter inch format too, as you could turn the tape over.


The problem with that was, since the recording time was doubled, retailers charged twice as much for the blank tapes relative to VHS and Betamax!

That killed it in my opinion, along with the necessity of turning the tape over.

Philips might have done better with a quarter inch tape recording in one direction only.

 
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Re: VCR & Off air signal differences

Post by Michael Watterson » Sat May 10, 2014 6:13 pm

The deliberate aim was to have a flip over cassette:
1) Familiar like audio compact cassette.
2) potentially no rewinding.

1" or 3/4" tape was deemed too big. So the idea of dynamic track following to shrink it to 1/4" per side. It wasn't blank tape cost that killed it. It was simply too late, so rare that video libraries had the format. By then Video rental was becoming as important as home taping. It would be some years in the future before studios realised direct retail sales at low price was a good strategy.

The Compact Cassette wiped out the slightly older 8 Track cartridge (Lear Jet?), very fast in Europe though compared to USA. Of course an 8 Track cartridge is an endless loop and can't rewind at all, so not comparable to VHS or Betamax or the earlier Japanese single reel Video cartridge (Stiff self lacing leader and takeup spool inside the machine, not cartridge. Pressing Eject fully rewound it first obviously).

Otherwise better with a single sided 1/2" tape.
They already had done the N1500 and N1700 long before VHS and Betamax. It used the two spools stacked, for those too young to remember, to have fat stubby cartridge.

 
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Re: VCR & Off air signal differences

Post by Red_to_Black » Sat May 10, 2014 9:44 pm

Well Philips did actually call it the Video Compact Cassette, hence the tapes marked VCC.

 
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Re: VCR & Off air signal differences

Post by BluePilot » Sat May 10, 2014 10:18 pm

ntscuser wrote:
Red to black wrote:Philips might have done better with a quarter inch tape recording in one direction only.


Philips was an excellent example of how to cock things up completely. In the 70s, they had 100% of the European domestic video market with the VCR system. A few years later and they had around 0%, having gone to sleep when VHS and Betamax appeared. By the time Video 2000 appeared, VHS had cornered the market. I don't think it would have made any difference what format they chose. They were just too late.

Philips caused enough problems with compact audio cassettes. Let's be grateful they didn't foist 1/4" video tapes on us.

 
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Re: VCR & Off air signal differences

Post by ntscuser » Sun May 11, 2014 5:57 pm

Soemething I don't get is, even the cheapest of budget VCRs were fitted with a very effective comb filter yet hardly any TV sets were.

I used to watch live broadcasts via the S-video output of my S-VHS recorder and believe me it was a big improvement over the set's internal receiver.

ttt:

 
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Re: VCR & Off air signal differences

Post by Michael Watterson » Sun May 11, 2014 6:50 pm

Because the improvement vs cost was perceived marginal by TV makers, and it makes a big improvement to S-VHS machines to separate Chroma and Luminance prior to recording as they are separately recorded. Not such an issue on non-S-VHS, I don't think most them (earlier anyway) had a comb filter.

 
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Re: VCR & Off air signal differences

Post by ntscuser » Mon May 12, 2014 3:49 pm

Michael Watterson wrote:Because the improvement vs cost was perceived marginal by TV makers, and it makes a big improvement to S-VHS machines to separate Chroma and Luminance prior to recording as they are separately recorded.


As they also are on standard VHS tapes. The two signals are only recombined for playback, at least on consumer grade VHS machines.

That is why ordinary VHS tapes look much better when played back via the S-video output on a S-VHS machine.

 
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Re: VCR & Off air signal differences

Post by Michael Watterson » Mon May 12, 2014 6:38 pm

Yes, I know the standard VHS records Colour separately. In fact I added "colour under" option board to an EIAJ reel to reel before VHS existed.

But I don't think the standard VHS machines (at least at first) had comb filters.

 
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Re: VCR & Off air signal differences

Post by Michael Watterson » Mon May 12, 2014 9:49 pm

I think it's very rare too to have Y/C S-video out on non- S-VHS machines, though it's very little extra cost and no doubt easily retro-fitted. Some S-VHS machines annoyingly have the Y/C out "hidden" on a SCART and only have a S-video mini-DIN socket for S-Video in. The cheap SCART to phono & S-Video sockets don't seem to be wired correct either.

 
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Re: VCR & Off air signal differences

Post by Briancuff » Mon May 12, 2014 9:50 pm

Rod Snell of Snell & Willcox fame says he was the first to make a Y/C interface between a colour under record/playback system - U-matic - and a monitor. He produced modifications to U-matic machines which brought out the chroma and luminance separately to avoid the distortions caused by the filters necessary to combine the two signals to produce a composite signal. JVC were quick on the uptake and developed the S-VHS interface which became the standard for up-market systems.

 
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Re: VCR & Off air signal differences

Post by Michael Watterson » Tue May 13, 2014 9:40 am

I have those in the attic if anyone needs the original kind. They look like a EIAJ camera connector in size. For "professional" gear.

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