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Philips N1702 - Twenty years of neglect.....

 
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Philips N1702 - Twenty years of neglect.....

Post by Katie Bush » Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:47 pm

Hi all,

Today I took the lid off one of my Philips N1702 VCRs.. I have two N1702, ans two N1700.

The pictures which follow will show the dereliction that ensues with twenty years - or thereabouts - of neglect.. As I slept, ate and worked over the years, these machines have suffered the ravages of time and moisture.

I can only expect that all four machines will be in the same condition internally, and it may come to pass that only enough will remain to make one from four - worse still, maybe none.. Nevertheless, I will endeavour to breath life into them.

IMG_1126.jpg
"As found" - This is one of the N1702s, just as it came out of the shed, a brick built outhouse that was menat to be dry.

This is the first machine in exactly the condition it was found.. A good wash will improve the cosmetics, but what lies beneath is much more of a concern.. On the face of it, spider webs, dust, grit and general detritus don't look to be a major problem, but they hide a gruesome sight.

IMG_1127.jpg
The tape deck - Houston, we have a problem - a major one, but is it a basket case? - We will see.

This shot of the tape deck gives an insight to the general condition of the innards of this machine.. The head disc is something of a concern, and although there is little or no surface corrosion on the disc, these heads are merely "glued" to the disc and are prone to shedding - my very first machine did just that when it was only a couple of years old, so what will these do at nearly forty years old?

IMG_1130.jpg
This is the same machine, with the "lid" off - It doesn't look good.

In this shot, we can see how the worst of the dereliction lies directly beneath to ventilation grille at the top of the machine.. If they'd been covered, this might have been a different story.. Since these machines were stacked on on top of another, there may be some better hope for the ones lower down.. I have yet to look inside the others, and I can't honestly say if this one was from the top of the pile, or the bottom.. I really should have been more observant.

IMG_1134.jpg
Below decks, and it doesn't get any better.

I had hoped that things would improve as I delved deeper into the bowels of the machine, but spiders know no bounds, and nor does moisture.. This is the under side of the power supply and regulation panel, and it has suffered some discolouration of the copper tracks under the resist.

IMG_1135.jpg
Power and regulation - If those relays have survived, there is a chance for this panel, albeit a slim one.

This is the same panel, viewed from above, and in all honesty it does look rahter better, which is rather a surprise given that the upward facing surface should have suffered most from falling detritus and dampness.. On the face of it, if those relays have survivied then there is some hope for this panel.

IMG_1136.jpg
"All belts are off" and they're well and truly lifeless - These will need replacing if this machine is to live again.. Will the others be the same? - Yes, almost certainly.

As can be seen from this picture, the belts are well shot.. There is no elasticity in the rubber, and it is just dead and lifeless, and stretches just like soft liqourice - It does not return to its former lenght and shape.

IMG_1137.jpg
These two micro-switch interlocks look to be in reasonable condition.

On the other hand, these two interlocks look to have survived rather better, but then, they look like relatively easily replaced micro switches, but at least it's not all doom and gloom.

IMG_1141.jpg
Lots of little daughter boards, and lots of rusty pots.


Every panel in these machines is populated with lots of these little "daughter" boards, almost all of which seem to carry several small preset pots, another source of problems no doubt?

IMG_1142.jpg
A basket case? - This is RF/IF - Chroma/Luma panel, and all that corrosion near the fuse has a sinister look about it.

This is a closer shot of the RF/IF and Chroma/Luma board, and shows rather a lot of corrosion which may be the portent of disaster.. Hopefully, a good clean up of this panel might tell a different tale, but on first sight, this one looks like a real basket case.

IMG_1143.jpg
Underneath all that muck, there is the motor that rotates the lower drum and threads the tape.

Moving back to the tape deck, this pile of crap hides the motor and gearing that rotates the lower head drum, threads the tape around the drum, and moves the drum/disc assembly into the cassette aperture.. Ironically, this is all mechanical, so as long as the motor has survived, this area will only need some relatively simple mechanical work to restore it to working condition.

Anyway.. That's a quick walk through of the first batch of pictures.. There are more, and it doesn't get any better.

The first job will be to get the VAX in on the act and suck up as much of the muck as possible, then set about looking at the rest of the machine (times four) before condemning them to the scrap heap - or not.

Marion

 
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Re: Philips N1702 - Twenty years of neglect.....

Post by rob t » Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:00 pm

Your a brave lady and I wish you the best of luck at least there is no EHT to worry about.
Rob T

 
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Re: Philips N1702 - Twenty years of neglect.....

Post by crustytv » Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:10 pm

Having zoomed in on all your pictures ( Ctrl & +) where the true horror is revealed in all its expanded rusty gore, all I can say is OMG ! Marion.......... :ccf

Having spent time working on the rusty Thorns I have a little insight into the uphill, sole destroying battle you face. Unless one of the other units offers some less damaged components, you're going to need an awful lot of parts and even then you face a monumental task to get these working, if that is at all possible.

As Rob says brave, I think I would walk away.

Best of luck, I fear you're going to need it. :thumb

 
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Re: Philips N1702 - Twenty years of neglect.....

Post by Katie Bush » Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:14 pm

Hi Rob,

Thankfully, there are four machines to play with.. If this had been the only one, I think I would have quietly replaced the lid and made funerary arrangements.

To be honest, I had to wrangle with my inner daemons over whether I should publicly admit to the state of these poor machines, but then, when they were put away all those years ago, they were household cast-offs at best, or at least items of curiousity - I never would have thought they might one day be the subject of a restoration project on the (at the time) none existant internet. :ccg

Oh, on the positive side - I actually have one genuine Philips mains lead to go with them!

Marion
Last edited by Katie Bush on Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Re: Philips N1702 - Twenty years of neglect.....

Post by Katie Bush » Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:21 pm

Hi Chris,

You have read my mind, but since there is nothing to lose, there is only something to gain.. At the very worst, I may end up with a pile of spares to offer up on the bay - though I hope it doesn't come to that.

As I say, there are four of them, and in what I hope will be an open and frank thread, I'll take whatever comes, and whatever I can make of it.

One key problem is going to be persuading forty year old rusty screws to come undone.. As long as I an find one chassis that will dismantle without wrecking anything, then I think I'll keep plugging away at it, but believe me, I could quite easily walk away from this project if it doesn't play ball, but again, I hope it won't come to that either.

Marion

 
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Re: Philips N1702 - Twenty years of neglect.....

Post by marc » Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:46 pm

Hi Marian,

Blooming 'eck, I don't envy you with this restoration :ccf but good luck with 'em girl :aad
I'll keep the bravery medals on stand by for you :qq1

Marc.

 
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Re: Philips N1702 - Twenty years of neglect.....

Post by Refugee » Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:47 pm

Be careful with the vacuum cleaner. Some of those machines used to shed components due to dry joints when they were being shipped back to the workshop.
I was shown one where the blue capacitors in the power supply were laying loose on the chassis when it arrived for repair.
If any components end up in the cleaner you will not only have to recover them but also you will have to find out where they came from and there polarity to boot.

 
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Re: Philips N1702 - Twenty years of neglect.....

Post by Katie Bush » Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:59 pm

Hi Marc,

It's not bravery, it's sheer lunacy... :-o But here goes nothing, and let's face it, what's the worst I can make from a mess like these?

Marion

Hi Rob,

I'll certainly keep that in mind about loose components, though you would not believe that all four of these machines were actually in working order when they were put away.

Marion

One saving grace with these machines is that I do actually have some original and genuine Philips service information for them.. I need to remember where I hid it, but it's here, somewhere.

Marion

 
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Re: Philips N1702 - Twenty years of neglect.....

Post by Refugee » Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:19 am

The other saving grace is that spiders do transport dust at certain times of year.
I have spotted one in the act doing it this year :cch
viewtopic.php?t=9318&p=97010#p97010

 
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Re: Philips N1702 - Twenty years of neglect.....

Post by Katie Bush » Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:40 pm

Hi all,

I've just been having a look at the other three machines, and the outlook is not quite so bleak. :)

The other N1702 has revealed its cassette deck to be in substatially better overall condition, and this could be attributable the fact that there was a cassette still in the carrier, though its RF/IF-Chroma/Luma panel looks to be U/S - Too much rust and corrosion, with its fuse rattling about loose on the panel, and the fuseholder completely rusted away - Totally gone, no sign of ever being there - vanished!

The N1700s have revealed one clock module which has a (mechanically) working slider switch.. Both have substantially better RF/IF-Chroma/Luma panels.. One has a healthy looking system control panel.. One cassette deck looks like it will go again, but the other seems to have been powered down during a threading, or unthreading cycle, and its mechanical interlocks are preventing me from opening the cassette door, but from what I can see, its deck looks reasonable.

I'm trying to be optimistic, and convince myself that I may just be able to rebuild one N1702, and one N1700.

As for the remaining parts, I would have very serious doubts - but you never know. :aaq

Perhaps this thread should have been called "Philips VCR - The fright of the phoenix" - :aak

I will try and get some pictures of these three machines over the next couple of days, but I think it will be a long time before I would want to apply any mains power to them.

Given the nature of the PSU and regulation, I'd surmise that it will an "all or nothing" power up.. In any event, I'm certain nothing will operate until full voltages are available.

The basic power up (normal circumstances) would place the machine in standby mode, with clock illuminated and displaying a flashing 00:00.. The clock and progamme timer can be set and locked without starting the machine.

Starting the machine involves a single press of the power I-O button, at which point the machine will spin up the video head disc and capstan, whilst simultanaeously threading the tape and presenting the drum assembly into the cassette aperture.. If both the head disc and capstan return valid signals to the system control, the machine will remain in this state for about 30 seconds.

If no keys are pressed, the tape unthreads and the system will power down automatically.. If a key is pressed, the machine will enter into which ever mode has been selected.. At this point, it gets more interesting as the transport mechanism now starts to move the tape.. If the tape fails to run, again the machine will power down.

Once we're into this level of operation, it will be the interlocks that will dictate what happens next.

Marion

 
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Re: Philips N1702 - Twenty years of neglect.....

Post by Doz » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:10 am

rob t wrote:Your a brave lady and I wish you the best of luck at least there is no EHT to worry about.
Rob T


... just mains everywhere !

 
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Re: Philips N1702 - Twenty years of neglect.....

Post by Cathovisor » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:46 am

Katie Bush wrote:Given the nature of the PSU and regulation, I'd surmise that it will an "all or nothing" power up.. In any event, I'm certain nothing will operate until full voltages are available.

It's low-voltage transistor stuff. Plug in and switch on, no point in doing anything else...

 
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Re: Philips N1702 - Twenty years of neglect.....

Post by valvekits » Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:20 pm

I took the chassis out of my recently acquired Pye FV1C and my heart sank when I saw the level of rust. However, having followed Chris's Saga's and now Marion's attempt to defy the laws of physics, the desire to overcome this non trivial matter is quite contagious. I have come to realise that the level of rust is simply nature's way of telling us that a restoration is long overdue.

Rust - Bring it on eh Marion? :bba

Eddie

 
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Re: Philips N1702 - Twenty years of neglect.....

Post by Katie Bush » Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:36 pm

valvekits wrote:
Rust - Bring it on eh Marion? :bba

Eddie


Hi Eddie,

Rust indeed, but, if I really wanted to go to the lengths of a complete strip and rebuild, it would seem that all the components are there, but spread across all four machines.. I'm not keen on the idea of going to that extent in relation to the mechanical side of things since setting up again would be virtually impossible without the proper rigs & jigs, so the plan is to take the two best tape decks/chassis and rebuild one as an original N1700, and the other as an N1702.

I'm almost certain that there will be enough to make two functional machines from four.. The worst damage is to the RF/IF Chroma/Luma boards in both of the N1702s.. Next, there are two tape decks that are in very poor condition, and two that look like they can be recovered, and as chance would have it, one of each.

Two PSU and regulation boards look to be in good-ish shape.. One system control board looks OK, another needs a good clean, and the remaining two don't look to be beyond recovery.

This leaves the record/play FM modulator/demodulator boards, all of which are filthy, but being tucked away below the RF/IF section would seem to have had the best chance of survival.

There is as yet only one clock module that looks to be recoverable, but I've drenched the other three in AC-90 (WD-40 lookalike) in an effort to get the slider switches freed off.

All four mains transformers seem to be in very shape, and my only concerns are of dampness.. Moisture ingress into the windings may be their downfall, and to that end, extended dehumidification is my best weapon of choice here.

Cosmetically, all plastics are "distressed" and it will be a matter of pick & mix of the best ones, and bearing in mind there is a difference in colour between the two models.

I have one cassette on hand, and somewhere, a large shopping bag containing around 20 or 30 more.. So, it is likely that the first thing to be shown on any of these machines (assuming restoration is feasible) will be "Those Magnificent Men And Their Flying Machines" - Rather apt, in its own way.

Marion

 
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Re: Philips N1702 - Twenty years of neglect.....

Post by Spot-Wobble » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:50 pm

Marion,

I wish I had known that you liked these machines.
I was given one in good condition with the promise of another one a few years ago.
The one I was given came with a valve tester which I kept, I just passed on the VCR as I wasn't interested in it.
I don't remember now where it went...

Hopefully to a good home.

Andy


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