It is currently Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:34 am

New toy...Philips 206A

Domestic Valve & Transistor receivers, Radiograms, Gramophones, Amplifiers, Hi-fi, Speakers, Record players, Music centres, Tape machines, Cassette players & Jukeboxes
 
Posts: 2920
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:13 pm
Location: Croydon

New toy...Philips 206A

Post by sideband » Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:18 pm

Mike (Crackle) paid me a visit today and I relieved him of a very nice Philips 206A for not very much money. We had a chat and he departed with some ferrite rods and a few bits and bobs.

A quick look at the Philips later showed it's in very good condition (far better than the other 206 I have which is only fit for parts). However the rubber wiring is well past its best, hard and crumbling to dust so a rewire is on the cards before any power can be applied. Most importantly it's all complete and absolutely begging to be sorted out so I think the Barker 88 and Ferranti will take a back-seat.

Mike has never applied power (probably very wisely in view of the wiring) so it'll be interesting to see what other faults are present.

This fits in very nicely with my present collecting trend (for radio's) which is 30 - 40's. There is a date stamp of 1947 on one of the cans so this little beauty is just short of 70 years old.

Thanks Mike. :aad
Attachments
js1024_SAM_0594.jpg
One of the moggies was as interested as me in the innards, until something outside distracted him.
js1024_SAM_0595.jpg
All clean and tidy inside
js1024_SAM_0596.jpg
Date stamp 1947

 
Posts: 730
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:16 pm
Location: Coningsby, Lincolnshire

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by Lloyd » Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:22 pm

I've got one o them :bba

Still got all it's original capacitors, and it works too! Cabinets polish up really nicely on these.

Regards,
Lloyd

 
Posts: 719
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:02 pm
Location: Chatteris, Cambs

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by PYE625 » Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:48 pm

What a beauty :)

 
Posts: 2516
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Basildon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by crackle » Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:56 pm

Hi Rich
The Philips 206A Trader sheet 478 lists the radio as released in 1940. I wonder if the capacitor is a replacement, or the radio had a long manufacturing run (not so likely).

Mike

ps
The KB Kobra I collected from Putney, on the way to yours, looks very original inside.

 
Posts: 2920
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:13 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by sideband » Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:57 pm

Crackle wrote:Hi Rich
The Philips 206A Trader sheet 478 lists the radio as released in 1940. I wonder if the capacitor is a replacement, or the radio had a long manufacturing run (not so likely).


Well of course that is possible. Unfortunately the original reservoir cap has been removed so I can't check that one. I suppose it's possible that none were made during the war and then production started again afterwards so a production run into 1947 could be feasible.... :aaq

Anyway I've taken the chassis out and had an initial look around. Most of the rubber wiring will definitely need to be replaced, all the hunts waxy caps and the Philips tar 'road blocks' will need replacing so plenty of work required. Some of the caps are buried beneath others so some dismantling will be required to get at them...all good fun. There has been some poor soldering carried out but most of that will be sorted when the caps are replaced. The plus points are that the mains and output trannys' check out OK resistance wise at least.

So when I start on the set, I'll begin with the mains transformer rewire and go from there.

There are some pictures of the set as it is at the moment. I noticed that there were tin whiskers growing on the back of the tuning drum. I immediately thought of the AF117 scenario. Must be the same processes going on.
Attachments
js1024_SAM_0599.jpg
Dodgy wiring around pilot lamp
js1024_SAM_0602.jpg
More dodgy wiring
js1024_SAM_0603.jpg
imaginative extended speaker leads! Grotty joins and soldering....
js1024_SAM_0604.jpg
More dodgy wiring. Looks OK but is rock hard and crumbles
js1024_SAM_0605.jpg
Yet more......
js1024_SAM_0609.jpg
Poor earthing to the can perhaps...?
js1024_SAM_0601.jpg
Those tin whiskers...

 
Posts: 2516
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Basildon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by crackle » Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:13 pm

By the way Rich, I noticed the Philips badge was a bit loose, mind it doesn't fall out and get trod on or lost. When I refurbished my other one there were some nasty exposed solder terminals on the mains TX and voltage selector, waiting to catch someone out.
Mike

 
Posts: 2920
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:13 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by sideband » Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:59 pm

Looking at the manufacturers manual and the Trader sheet, it seems there was an earlier model using side-contact valves ECH3, EF9, EBL1 and AZ1. That means the original release date was probably 1940 as per the Trader sheet. It's likely that after the war, production was resumed using the newer octal valves so 1947 is a reasonable production date.

 
Posts: 2920
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:13 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by sideband » Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:02 pm

Crackle wrote:By the way Rich, I noticed the Philips badge was a bit loose, mind it doesn't fall out and get trod on or lost.


Yes I had noticed that. It's only held in by a pin pushed through and bent over. I have another badge off the scrap set should the worst happen but hopefully just a dab of superglue will be sufficient to hold it.

 
Posts: 2920
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:13 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by sideband » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:56 pm

Update:
Only a short time in the workshop this evening. Removed the chassis from cabinet and had a good look over the chassis. I'll start by rewiring the transformer. In the meantime I noticed that a replacement switched pot had been fitted in place of the original Philips type with front-mounted open switch. That was normal back in 'the day' when original parts were no longer available. There was nothing wrong with the replacement but just for the sheer hell of it, I'm going to replace it with an original Philips pot with switch taken from the scrap 206A. After all, if the correct part is available, why not use it? I'll also fit the correct spacers seeing as the originals had been cut down to accommodate the rear-mounted switch on the replacement.

Next session, the rewire starts...... :aad
Attachments
js1024_SAM_0610.jpg
Non-standard replacement switched pot.
js1024_SAM_0613.jpg
The replacement taken from a scrap 206A, cleaned, serviced and ready to fit.

 
Posts: 2920
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:13 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by sideband » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:17 pm

I've managed to grab a few hours over the last few days to do a little more work on this set. I've replaced all the paper caps although one has temporarily been replaced by two in parallel as I didn't have any 4700pF caps left...I used two 2200pF caps.

I've also started the rewire. This can be rather time-consuming so I generally do a little at a time. Some of it is quite buried and clearly was done before other components were fitted. I'll only replace the really critical wire runs like heater and HT wiring. Any original that is OK can stay. Other non-critical runs that may crumble in the future can also stay if there is no danger of them shorting to HT, chassis or heater.

I fitted the correct type volume control/switch although the switch still needs rewiring....that will be done when the rest of the mains transformer is rewired.

I also noticed that an incorrect output transformer was fitted...held in by only one screw. The scrap set had a good one so that was removed, cleaned and fitted to this set.

A few pictures of progress so far.
Attachments
js1024_SAM_0615.jpg
General view underneath.
js1024_SAM_0614.jpg
js1024_SAM_0618.jpg
Transformer partly rewired.

 
Posts: 2920
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:13 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by sideband » Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:04 pm

Spent a couple of hours today doing a rewire. It's not quite complete yet but well under way. It'll be safe to apply some power soon but I need to rewire the pilot lamp...the wires are split and flaking. So far I've done the critical heater runs, the mains transformer, the output transformer and a couple of HT runs. Also fitted a new mains lead. It's all looking a lot tidier and neater than it was a week or so ago. Hopefully I'll be able to get mains on it in a day or so. I need to replace the reservoir cap. Unfortunately the original cap has been removed and an ancient radiospares type was fitted underneath that was completely open circuit. I've run out of 33uF types at 450V so will have to order some. I haven't even got any close enough to make up the value. I know I have some 16uF 450V at work so I may use a couple of those for the moment.

In the mean time, here are some photo's of the work so far.
Attachments
js1024_SAM_0628.jpg
New wiring around the mains transformer and voltage selector
js1024_SAM_0629.jpg
Side view.
js1024_SAM_0631.jpg
Front view and wiring going to the switch.
js1024_SAM_0623.jpg
New mains lead wired in
js1024_SAM_0621.jpg
General view underneath. Some new wiring, output transformer and heaters.

 
Posts: 3028
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:20 pm
Location: The Vale Of York

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by Katie Bush » Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:22 pm

Certainly looking tidy now, Rich. :aad

As it happens, I saw a couple of 32uf on eBay in the last two or three days, in amongst the radios.tube/valve category.. Probably used, but can't be certain.

I had to do a similar rewire on one of my Bush TV53s.. In that case, I used the existing wiring as hawsers to pull the new wires along the original path simply by detaching the old wire at one end, solder the new wire to the end of the old and pull gently through, guiding and steering through chassis holes and grommets etc. as I went along.. It went well, but like your radio, there are still several runs that are 'buried' deep below other things, and still need doing.

Marion

 
Posts: 2920
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:13 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by sideband » Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:32 pm

I would prefer to have used yellow wire to match the original but had run out. The stuff I'm using here came from work and is UL approved and rated at 150 degrees C. It's a joy to work with, easy to strip and the insulation stays in place when soldering without shrinking back.

 
Posts: 2516
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Basildon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by crackle » Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:34 am

Deja Vu. I remember doing the same re-wiring on the one I restored with the broken back panel.
It is looking a lot healthier now.
Do you have a suitable period capacitor case to stuff and replace the RS one.
Mike

 
Posts: 2920
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:13 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by sideband » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:27 pm

Crackle wrote:Do you have a suitable period capacitor case to stuff and replace the RS one.
Mike


No but the original was a bolted can type. This has been completely removed. What I have got is the old one from the scrap set but it's not in good condition and is rotted around the top. I was going to invest in a new one from Ask Jan First or find an original type for restuffing.

 
Posts: 2516
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Basildon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by crackle » Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:08 pm

It looks like the one on the 206 I repaired was one of those with 3 lugs which you twist to lock in place.
32+32 uf cap 2.jpg

But even that one was not original as there is a note to say it was replaced in 1953.
32+32 uf cap.jpg

Mike

 
Posts: 2920
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:13 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by sideband » Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:55 pm

That one on the sub-chassis is smoothing....same as mine fitted with three lugs. The other one is on the other side of the chassis next to the tuning cap. That should be a bolt in type but has been removed leaving a hole in the chassis. That's the one I'd like to replace. you can see where it is supposed to fit in this post last picture. The hole next to the output transformer.

 
Posts: 2516
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Basildon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by crackle » Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:19 pm

Ah yes, I never even noticed that hole.
My one was fitted with a 32 + 32 dual electrolytic for C23 & C29 on the little bracket attached to the rear of the chassis. It must have been a common arrangement then, I wonder if Philips did it on later models, or if it was a repair accessory.
Mike
Attachments
top chassis.png

 
Posts: 2920
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:13 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by sideband » Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:39 pm

Well I've got a very nice 32/32 which I suppose could be fitted to the little sub-chassis....it's an option even if only temporarily.

 
Posts: 2714
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:19 pm
Location: Behind the sofa

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by Cathovisor » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:15 pm

sideband wrote:I was going to invest in a new one from Ask Jan First or find an original type for restuffing.

The BVWS sell those screw-based cans, Rich. Whether they're thin enough is another matter.

 
Posts: 2516
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Basildon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by crackle » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:52 pm

Just scanned and scaled the image of the screw base cap in the Bulletin and it looks like the screw thread is 18mm diameter.

Mike

 
Posts: 2920
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:13 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by sideband » Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:30 pm

Just popped in to the workshop for an hour or so this evening. I decided that I'd done enough rewiring to safely apply power. There is still some more to replace but felt it was time to see if I could coax some life out of the set. The remaining 32uF tested fine on the bridge so I reasoned that it was safe to leave in circuit. The reservoir cap was a different story. Being completely out of 33uF caps I had to bodge three caps in parallel and make a temporary substitute, total value 30.7uF....16uF, 10uF and 4.7uF the best I could come up with!

Anyway I ran the set up on the variac to give the original 32uF a soft awakening starting at 150V. The AZ31 obviously started doing something at this low voltage as I had 70V HT. Over the next 5 minutes, I increased the mains up to normal stopping at 240V. This was giving me about 220V HT so the AZ is a little low but it looks original (Philips Miniwatt type) so I suppose you can't grumble as it's getting on for 70 years old.....The most important thing is the set works! Once the HT was up at 150V, the oscillator started and away it went and with a quick twiddle of the tuning, Gold was coming in loud and clear with The Who playing Substitute. The poor old EBL31 must have wondered what had hit it with Roger Daltry's vocals. No hum either so the original 32Uf is fine.

I have to tidy up the rest of the set, replace the remaining dodgy wiring and sort out the reservoir cap properly. Still plenty to do.

 
Posts: 2714
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:19 pm
Location: Behind the sofa

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by Cathovisor » Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:03 am

Just a thought: it's the table top sale at the Wireless Museum in Dulwich this weekend, and the BVWS capacitor stall will be there. An opportunity to get the 32+32 you need?

 
Posts: 2920
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:13 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by sideband » Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:59 am

Won't be there unfortunately. Domestic duties and all that......!

 
Posts: 2920
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:13 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: New toy...Philips 206A

Post by sideband » Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:35 pm

Well I'm just about done on the electrical restoration. Tonight I re-wired the pilot lamp. There are a few things to tidy up and I may replace some more wire. Other than that, possibly a quick check of alignment and then it's a simple cabinet polish and then back together. It ran for a couple of hours without any problems this evening and I can also confirm that the AZ31 is still good and giving more than 240V HT at the reservoir. When I measured it previously, I had the mains set to 220V instead of 240....not bad for what appears to be an original valve....

Latest pictures to show current state.
Attachments
js1024_SAM_0632.jpg
Valves back in place and chassis cleaned.
js1024_SAM_0633.jpg
The re-wired pilot lamp and a new grommet as the original had turned to goo...
js1024_SAM_0634.jpg
Under the chassis with the mounting brackets and screen plate replaced. The bodged reservoir cap can be seen just under the output transformer. These three will be replaced with a 33uF when I've ordered some.
js1024_SAM_0636.jpg
Working...tuned to Gold.

Next

Return to Radio & Audio



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest