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Removing sought after parts from vintage gear

 
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Re: Removing sought after parts from vintage gear

Post by Cathovisor » Fri May 13, 2016 4:20 pm

turretslug wrote: I seem to recall that [the 6L7] was not only one of the noisiest mixers around, but also took markedly high screen current- I suspect that these two factors aren't entirely unconnected!

They are indeed directly related! By contrast, the EF8 was one of the 'quietest' valves in its day, and I do believe was referred to as the "Silentron" in some literature. Although badged and wired as a pentode, it is in fact a hexode and has a tiny screen current.

The data sheet here https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/046/e/EF8.pdf explains the operation very well indeed.

 
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Re: Removing sought after parts from vintage gear

Post by Paul_RK » Fri May 13, 2016 7:44 pm

Cathovisor wrote:I can remember being offered a Point One at school when they were clearing out the physics prep room some 35 years ago...
Hindsight is a cruel thing sometimes..


Yes, the categories of wanted and unwanted items just can't be relied on to stay put. In the early '70s I bought at auction for a very few shillings the entire works of a Decca Beau: deck, push-pull PX4 amplifier, tuner in its own fully polished enclosure and three 'speakers. Probably the cabinet had been wanted as a blanket box,or possibly to house some more modern audio bits. Can't remember now what became of any of it except the amplifier valves must have found their way into my spares box.

The changes of fashion, and the unaccountable impulses of individuals, do throw up some pretty odd combinations too. I've come across a Garrard 301 fitted as a modification to an otherwise very ordinary 1950s Pye radiogram: and in the corner as I type, buried at present under the current household audio system, is a massive radiogram cabinet which a joiner in Lincoln built for himself, in typical mid-'50s style, to house the extracted chassis and loudspeaker of a nearly top-of-range RGD 'gram from 1938, the 1175, in combination with an up-to-the-minute BSR UA8 autochanger.

Paul

 
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Re: Removing sought after parts from vintage gear

Post by turretslug » Sat May 14, 2016 10:21 am

If only I'd had the brass neck to scrounge some more of the stuff that was heaved out of my physics lab, including sacks of surplus components- I meekly acquired a couple of dozen Colvern pots and a fistful of ceramic terminal post strips, but that was the tip of the iceberg. Oh, and a few classic, if dry, 'thirties radio theory books.

It's not unusual to come across a pre-war set where, say, the original U50 and KT63 have been supplanted by US metal 5Z4 and 6F6 as a reflection of what was plentiful when the originals got tired. I really can't get too worked up or upset at this sort of thing- it represents a wider historical and cultural context, i.e. why were large numbers of US military valves kicking around in Britain in the late 'forties? Discuss. I'd be happy to leave them be, of course checking that HT was about right, easily tweaked with a fusible film for good measure, and that pin 1 of the appropriate valve socket was safely connected to chassis. Similarly, every man has his price and once certain valves' value escalates to a particular point of craziness, I daresay I'd be prepared to shrug my shoulders (well, if they really think it's worth that much....) and swap them for readies and substitute an appropriate and readily available MKT4, 5881 etc. with suitable adjustments. It'll be a one-way deal, though!- no money back when they find that a 'twenties-originated, only capable of a few watts output, part-worn DH triode doesn't make their life suddenly wonderful and is moreover rather more difficult to use than the fulsome praise of the gurus promised.

Back to the radios that started the thread, it'd be nice to think that they'd be passed on once they've been asset-stripped for rejuvenation with less mystical glassware, but there seems to be genuine puzzlement that anyone would want "old junk" for anything other than immediate venal purposes.

 
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Re: Removing sought after parts from vintage gear

Post by crackle » Sat May 14, 2016 4:42 pm

I would love to know what happened to the 5 or 6 Gaumont Kalee amps we were given to convert our projection suite to Dolby stereo. We never did the conversion and as far as I know the amps were still stashed under the seating when the place was demolished. :ccb :aai
Mike

 
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Re: Removing sought after parts from vintage gear

Post by cobaltblue » Sat May 14, 2016 9:39 pm

turretslug wrote:Back to the radios that started the thread, it'd be nice to think that they'd be passed on once they've been asset-stripped for rejuvenation with less mystical glassware, but there seems to be genuine puzzlement that anyone would want "old junk" for anything other than immediate venal purposes.


As a Cossor collector its become quite a serious problem for me.

The 2P is not the worlds best triode yet its widely advertised as a 2V PX4 which is untrue the closest would be the now very rare 2XP.

Unfortunately where there is money to made the strippers have no heart for the industrial heritage or just the joy of a set being as its designer intended it.

I have on more than one occasion bought a set, travelled many miles to pick it up to discover the seller has popped the 2P because the nice chap said if he gave me a fiver off I would still be happy, Guess what not happy! on both those occasions I left the set with the seller

I now ensure before setting off the set is still as advertised.

Trying to find solutions to missing output valves is challenging and I am now beginning to run out of stock since I have almost 70 Cossor sets that use a 2P, 2XP or 4XP. and in the last 10 years about 50% of Cossors I have bought have been without an Output valve.

Thank god I have been collecting for over 40 years when 2P's were worth about that :)

I don't want to spoil anyone's hobby but I think its not that likely that much commercial HiFi ever used a 2P.

So its new build by those with golden ears and deep pockets.

Once even the stupidly overpriced triodes have vanished what will be next..........

I Hope Jon's prediction comes true and the day of the PY81 will be with us soon !

Cheers

Mike T

 
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Re: Removing sought after parts from vintage gear

Post by Valvebloke » Sat May 14, 2016 10:51 pm

cobaltblue wrote: ... Once even the stupidly overpriced triodes have vanished what will be next ...


The answer seems to be brand new stupidly overpriced triodes. And yes, that day is already here https://www.tubedepot.com/products/kr-a ... 0b-balloon.

VB

 
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Re: Removing sought after parts from vintage gear

Post by turretslug » Sat May 14, 2016 11:08 pm

I wonder how that compares (relatively speaking) with what WE 300Bs would have cost back in the day?

 
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Re: Removing sought after parts from vintage gear

Post by Valvebloke » Sat May 14, 2016 11:43 pm

Good question. I'll bet the answer is that the new ones are still significantly more expensive though. They ought to be, given the tiny customer base that there now is for them.

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, you do make a good point. We have, it seems, come to expect that valves should be more-or-less worthless. I note Mike T's smiley, but his joke about a 2P being worth about 2p does tell us something. Perhaps we shouldn't be so surprised, if we're really not prepared to pay anything like the proper value for valves, that other people, who are, end up buying them away from us :aab ?

VB

 
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Re: Removing sought after parts from vintage gear

Post by cobaltblue » Sun May 15, 2016 9:42 am

Valvebloke wrote:
Playing devil's advocate for a moment, you do make a good point. We have, it seems, come to expect that valves should be more-or-less worthless. I note Mike T's smiley, but his joke about a 2P being worth about 2p does tell us something. Perhaps we shouldn't be so surprised, if we're really not prepared to pay anything like the proper value for valves, that other people, who are, end up buying them away from us :aab ?

VB


Yes but that was 40 years ago when even the Valve HiFi that the Valve Audio guys now drool over had virtually no value.

When I was at college (1973 -75) I had Stereo LEAK in the Garage powering a pair of Sandwich speakers given to me by a neighbour clearing out his Junk. My parents binned it when they moved in around 1978. I was living in a very full bed-sit with no where to put it.

If I have to I can just sell a load of my Osram KT66's to pay for a few Triodes but I am not at that point just yet.

It seems to have been the 80's with the rise of the Yuppy that this stuff all took off.

Cheers

Mike T

 
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Re: Removing sought after parts from vintage gear

Post by Valvebloke » Sun May 15, 2016 8:08 pm

cobaltblue wrote:... I have almost 70 Cossor sets that use a 2P, 2XP or 4XP ...


cobaltblue wrote:... I can just sell a load of my Osram KT66's ... but I am not at that point just yet ...


An economist would tell us that the reason for the high price of old stock valves is that supply isn't sufficient to meet demand i.e. that the valves which do exist are not being allowed onto the market, thereby keeping the price high. This is what every sensible person who is lucky enough to own a lot of valuable things would do. He would hang onto them, bleeding them out slowly to squeeze as much return out of them as he can. Perhaps the best known example of this is the big housebuilders. They own large 'land banks', but they don't cover them with houses just as quickly as they could since the resulting rise in supply would cause the price to fall and they'd not make as much as they possibly could from their land assets. Instead they hang onto the land and only build on it gradually, so keeping the price as high as possible. I guess it's the same with the 'valve banks'. I'm not sure it really behoves us, though, to grumble about valve prices while sitting on the sorts of reserves which, if we released them, would help lower those prices ...

VB

 
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Re: Removing sought after parts from vintage gear

Post by cobaltblue » Sun May 15, 2016 9:22 pm

Valvebloke wrote:
cobaltblue wrote:... I have almost 70 Cossor sets that use a 2P, 2XP or 4XP ...


And I have around 150 more that don't use those valves I am after all a Cossor Collector........... I collect Cossors not just ones with 2P's in them.

As as for me selling my stash making any difference to the price frankly that's rubbish if everyone sold all their stashes in a short period the price might just dip a little but everyone would still know that the resource was limited.

I accept the point that the high price is supply and demand but its phoolery that is pushing up the prices of modest radio triodes, I gave up worrying about the cost of a PX4 long ago ( back in the 1980's)


Cheers

Mike T

 
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Re: Removing sought after parts from vintage gear

Post by Michael Watterson » Mon May 16, 2016 1:59 pm

This is why I only agree with new construction projects for valves that use either really common NOS (Russian version ECH81, Military NOS 1T4 battery valve, Russian Rod Tubes) or valves actually in production. It can put auction price up x5 for "ordinary" pre-war valves if they are used in a project. It's totally irresponsible when there are a good few post war types with massive NOS availability. ECH81 will even work of a 12V HT, tens of thousands of the Russian NOS one available.

The high price of 1L6 is due to Transoceanic collectors stashing them. You'd not easily reduce the price even if you had a thousand to sell. Actually quite a few USA sets used that valve, probably more than UK sets that used the similar DF92, which is about 1/10th price and probably in reality rarer!

 
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Re: Removing sought after parts from vintage gear

Post by Cathovisor » Mon May 16, 2016 4:49 pm

Michael Watterson wrote: It can put auction price up x5 for "ordinary" pre-war valves if they are used in a project.

Can you cite examples Michael? With pre- and post- project prices, and the project said valves were used in?

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