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Ferguson 3173

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by PYE625 » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:56 pm

The_Teleman wrote:Now I know why I don't like thorn sets .
Give me a good old PYE any day

Chris



Noooooo...... even Pye's can be a pain in the posterior. :bba

You will soon be the Thorn Master !!

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by jayceebee » Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:41 pm

Hi Chris, something to beware of if you have problems with focus on the 8500/8800. Although the focus controls do give trouble the paxolin of the CRT was known to absorb moisture if the set has not been used for some time, becuase of the high resistances in the focus chain the moisture can cause the focus voltage to be pulled down.

Watching the screen apply plenty of heat from a hairdryer to the print side of the CRT base PCB around the focus pin and spark gap, keep rocking the focus control and if this is the case you should start to see some improvement but it may take a while.

I'm afraid I was never impressed with the 8000 series sets, reasonably reliable but the 17" with it's unipotential CRT wasn't great, the 19" sets were acceptable but the 22" 8800 was a poor performer, built down to a price I suppose. The later 5 IC decoder did give much better and consistent performance in weak signal areas over the 3 IC type.

In D.E.R. we even had the model 5723, a 22" (A56-120X) version of the 8500 which of course had no pincushion correction incorporated in the design. It was dreadful :ccf

Now the later quirky 9800 chassis with it's odd inertia PSU kick start I thought was a much better set but it seems most engineers hated them.

John.

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by crustytv » Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:03 pm

jayceebee wrote: 19" sets were acceptable but the 22" 8800 was a poor performer, built down to a price I suppose....

Now you've got me worried, I have one of those making its way up the queue for bench time. :aai
http://www.radios-tv.co.uk/1975-hmv-2725/

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by jayceebee » Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:14 pm

Don't get me wrong Chris, they were reliable, predictable but in my opinion a bit lack lustre compared to a good 3500 and the competition at the time. Now the 9800 which was developed from the 8800 gave a cracking picture.

John.

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by Red_to_Black » Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:16 pm

I can remember when I first started in the trade, I was "seconded" to our field engineer for a week or two fairly early on.

Anyway we called out to a customer with a rental 8800 set, the complaint was poor focus, the field engineer unplugged the chassis return of the focus unit and switched the set on, after a brief sparking and crackling from the set he switched the set off and replaced the chassis return lead, the poor focus problem was fixed.
Now I don't claim to know if this was bodgery at its finest, nor do I recommend doing this, but it was just one of those things that stick in ones mind.

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by crustytv » Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:20 pm

jayceebee wrote:Don't get me wrong Chris, they were reliable, predictable but in my opinion a bit lack lustre compared to a good 3500 and the competition at the time. Now the 9800 which was developed from the 8800 gave a cracking picture.

John.

Ahh now you've hit my sweet spot.... my favourite chassis to work on is the 3000/3500. What's your opinion of the 9600? I have one of those also waiting in the wings. I've almost got all the early BRC/Thorn just missing a 4K ( desperate to find one) ,8K and 98K though I turned down an offer of a 98K as it ventures into the wrong end of the decade I'm interested in.

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by jayceebee » Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:28 pm

The 9600 series is a wonderfully over-engineered set capable of good results. The 4000 like the 9800 has a poor reputation but I would love to do battle with one, if one did pop up I suspect it would be well out of my reach. We live in hope.

The sourcing of the troublesome Thick Films units would be a problem though.

John.

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by Red_to_Black » Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:37 pm

I always thought that the 9k and 9k6 sets gave a reasonably good account of themselves, we only started scrapping them when the tubes were completely knackered or if it was going to take too long to fix.
most customers at the time were quite happy to hold on to them.

The 3k and 3k5 were getting long in the tooth by then and were more or less scrapped on sight, the replacements being the TX 9 or 10, the TX100 was a brand new chassis at this point in time.

Edit: never had any dealings, nor even seen a 4k set so cannot comment.

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by Red_to_Black » Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:05 pm

I worked for an ex Thorn engineer (ex D.E.R), and he swore by the 3k and 3k5 sets, he reckoned after the mods were done and they were set up correctly they were the most reliable sets.

He was bolloxed though with anything after the TX 10 :qq1 , I fixed all of the later sets :bba

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by The_Teleman » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:39 am

Hi Andrew

I still prefer pye sets, never really liked or wanted a thorn set it came with some other
Sets I bought I was going to offer it as a swap for something PYE but thought I would give it a go
I know PYE can be troublesome the 170 series with that poor lopt to say the least
Personally ITT was the make I was raised on & still think they are one of the best
Hybrid sets ever made

Hi John

Nice to,hear from you again , hope your keeping well ,thanks for that information about
The CRT base funny you should mention that though I did notice that the focus changed
as the set warmed up
Thinking this could be down to the EHT tray I've ordered a new one anyway
Don't really like thorn sets probably because I never had a lot to do with them
Only ever seen the odd 3500 , 8500, etc but as I sad above ITT was my thing
But now I'm in to collecting anything PYE due to room restrictions I had to make a choice
This came as an odd set with some other things I bought together with a kit set
A Forgestone 1970's set that works fine .
So I now have a grand total of 4 colour sets 2 PYE's & the other 2 as mentioned
I'll give it a go with a hairdryer & let you know how it goes

Chris

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by Till Eulenspiegel » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:37 am

Had loads of 8500 series receivers out on rental during the 70s, mainly the attractive Alba version and also the Marconi 4713. These sets were bought from wholesalers. I liked them, the sets didn't give too much trouble and the main thing these sets were liked by the customers.
The chassis morphed in the 8800 series which again wasn't too bad either but that 9800 thing, that was something else. That one is best forgotten.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by PYE625 » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:49 pm

The_Teleman wrote:Hi Andrew

Personally ITT was the make I was raised on & still think they are one of the best
Hybrid sets ever made



Chris


Back in 1984 when I did work experience at Cotton TV rentals in Peterborough, I can remember a chap called Steve Kruger telling me that ITT CVC5,9 were once the bread-and-butter set and could be installed and forgotten about.

Funny how that stuck in my mind.

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by The_Teleman » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:52 am

Well back to the 8500 , had another look at the set today took the focus unit apart
Cleaned it baked it for about 20 mins on a low heat ( yes you read right ) I put the thick film part in the oven just in case any moisture had been absorbed.
When re assembled I had a clear focus we will have to see how long it lasts
While setting the set up for brightness I still thought the picture looked very week
Lacking in contrast , it still has no colour , no red drive & no sound
The only conclusion I can come to is that someone before me had switched the set on
After being stored in damp conditions & it flashed over taking out the line output transistor, & all three I/C's on the decoder .
I ordered replacements together with an EHT tray so we will see what happens when
The parts arrive

Chris

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by PYE625 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:57 pm

The_Teleman wrote:Well back to the 8500 , had another look at the set today took the focus unit apart
Cleaned it baked it for about 20 mins on a low heat ( yes you read right ) I put the thick film part in the oven just in case any moisture had been absorbed.
When re assembled I had a clear focus we will have to see how long it lasts

Chris


Funny you say that as I seem to remember the place where my dad worked had an 8500 in the cold and damp canteen.....
Often the EHT would crack over and the picture out of focus until it had been on a while and the set warmed through a little.

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by The_Teleman » Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:04 pm

Well after the oven treatment for the focus unit all seems well even after a night in my garage
Don't know if you can get a good idea from the photo but that's the stage the set is at now
The low contrast , no colour , washed out picture

Chris
Attachments
image.jpeg

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by PYE625 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:59 pm

The_Teleman wrote:
The low contrast , no colour , washed out



Story of my life lol !!!

No, well done for achieving thus far :aad

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by The_Teleman » Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:38 pm

Cheers Andrew , it's not been a labour of love this one
But in the words of Magnus Magnuson
I've started so I'll finish :aad

Chris

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by The_Teleman » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Well the parts finally arrived mc1558 sound Ic
& the mc1327 for the lack of red drive
First to be fitted was the MC1558 this restored full sound
So then I turned to the MC1327PQ & low & behold this restored the red drive
But also improved the picture , as I said previously the picture looked washed out
Like a flat CRT but this was also resolved with replacing this I/C so the contrast now
worked normally
Still had no colour though

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by The_Teleman » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:58 pm

The picture so far
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Good grayscale at last
image.jpeg

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by crustytv » Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:12 pm

Time to disable the colour killer.

By the way you might find the 8500 decoder fault finding guide of use, it can be found here http://www.radios-tv.co.uk/thorn-8500-setup/

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by The_Teleman » Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:24 pm

Thanks Chris

I have something similar but yours looks more comprehensive
Attachments
image.jpeg
image.jpeg
image.jpeg

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by PYE625 » Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:41 pm

Getting better and better....convergence looking good :aad

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by The_Teleman » Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:46 pm

Well I now know why this set was dead
It's without doubt due to a flashover , now , is it due to the damp conditions it's been stored in or the fact the smoothing capacitors have leaked or even a combination of the two.
The flashover took out the line output transistor , the MC 1327 , the MC1358 so why would it stop there .
Up to now I have found 2 s/c transistors vt111 & vt113 in the decoder & several out of spec capacitors .
On trying to set up the decoder as per the service information to hand everything was goin well until I went to adjust the ref osc coil L112 , the core was missing ?
Now why that would be missing I don't know
But I have heard in the past rental colour set having the ref osc stopped so they could be rented out as black & white sets .
Now it's pure speculation that this is the case here.
Having searched for a core to fit with the right thread & length I finally found one out of an old radio I/f stage, but no difference,
Thinking I'm going to have to dig my scope out of mothballs I went through the setting up procedure one more time without the scope & found vt110 to be faulty
Now I seem to remember somewhere that this device would fail for no apparent reason so being as there has been a flashover it's reasonable to assume it would have failed , and indeed it had , a replacement cured the fault with the ref osc.
One more time with the setting up & we have colour !
Wonderful ! Who needs a scope ?
So a full set up with convergence & geometry & we have a cracking picture in full living colour
Now I still insist this was NOT a labour of love but i did get a sense of achievement out of it.
Still think it needs an EHT tray as even with a replacement focus unit the focus is still at the top end of its travel .
All in all not a bad set considering it's a low end budget set . :aad
Attachments
image.jpeg
Full living colour!
image.jpeg
Components replaced

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by PYE625 » Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:58 pm

Fantastic !
A cracking little set indeed. :aap

 
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Re: Ferguson 3173

Post by malcscott » Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:22 pm

Well done!

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