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VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

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VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Katie Bush » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:46 am

For the interest of the TV folk, I came across an old file of Transmitter data for the now defunct UK Sytem 'A' television service.

It is a list of transmitter names/locations, channels, frequencies, polarisation and effective radiated power.

I can't remember where I found it, but all credit is due to whoever built up the data.

Former U.K. Television Stations (VHF 405-line System A)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Transmitter information copyright BBC and IBA 1981. Public domain information only.

Two lists follow: one for the BBC network and one for the IBA network.

Tx Transmitter identifier (.0 denotes a main station) and name
Ch Channel
P Polarisation:
H Horizontal
V Vertical
ERPW Effective radiated power (watts)
mAOD Aerial height above Ordnance Survey datum (metres)
OS Ordnance Survey grid reference
BBC Programme region
IBA Company

Tx Ch P ERPW mAOD OS BBC
----------------------------------------------------------------
.0 Belmont 13 V 20k TF217837 North
Skegness 1 H 60 TF56 63 North
.0 Blaen-Plwyf 3 H 3k SN569756 Wales
Dolgellau 5 V 25 SH727185 Wales
Ffestiniog 5 H 50 SH709392 Wales
Machynlleth 5 H 50 SH723003 Wales
.0 Crystal Palace 1 V 200k TQ339712 London/SE
Bexhill 3 H 150 TQ729103 London/SE
Eastbourne 5 V 50 TQ582021 London/SE
Hastings 4 H 15 TQ806100 London/SE
Hungerford 4 H 25 SU336713 London/SE
Newhaven 8 V 50 TQ435006 London/SE
Rye 3 H 50 TQ904198 London/SE
.0 Divis 1 H 35k J 286750 NIre
Ballycastle 4 H 50 D 077423 NIre
Brougher Mountain 5 V 7k H 350527 NIre
Kilkeel 3 H 25 J 281180 NIre
Larne 3 H 50 D 395037 NIre
Londonderry 2 H 1k5 C 404176 NIre
Maddybenny More 5 H 20 C 847376 NIre
Newry 4 V 30 J 091221 NIre
.0 Dover Swingate 2 V 1k5 TR334429 London/SE
Canterbury 5 V 30 TR125596 London/SE
Folkestone 4 H 40 TR229382 London/SE
.0 Haverfordwest 4 H 10k SN029262 Wales
Ammanford 12 H 20 SN661109 Wales
Cardigan 2 H 450 SN154441 Wales
.0 Holme Moss 2 V 100k SE095041 North
Scarborough 1 H 500 TA009880 North
Sheffield 1 H 50 SK324870 North
Swaledale 13 H 100 SD97 97 North Planned only
Wensleydale 1 V 20 SD992907 North
.0 Kirk o'Shotts 3 V 100k NS858638 Scot
Ashkirk 1 V 18k NT470244 Scot
Ayr 2 H 50 NS309171 Scot
Campbeltown 5 V 2k5 NR707192 Scot
Dundee Law 2 V 10 NO391313 Scot
Forfar 5 V 5k NO483409 Scot
Girvan 4 V 20 NX211981 Scot
Lochgilphead 1 V 20 NR848861 Scot
Millburn Muir 1 V 10 NS378796 Scot
Perth 4 V 25 NO131232 Scot
Pitlochry 1 H 200 NN923565 Scot
Port Ellen 2 V 50 NR338452 Scot
Rosneath 2 V 20 NS258811 Scot
Toward 5 V 25 NS124684 Scot
.0 Les Platons 4 H 1k CI925273 SW
.0 Llanddona 1 V 6k SH583810 Wales
Holyhead 4 H 10 SH223825 Wales
.0 Meldrum 4 H 17k NJ761330 Scot
Ballater 1 V 10 NO379954 Scot
Bressay 3 V 6k HU503387 Scot
Orkney 5 V 15k HY462045 Scot
Thrumster 1 V 7k ND344456 Scot
.0 Moel-y-Parc 6 V 20k SJ123701 Wales
Betws-y-Coed 4 H 35 SH825582 Wales
Llangollen 1 H 35 SJ204421 Wales
.0 North Hessary Tor 2 V 15k SX578742 SW
Bude 4 V 100 SS233069 SW
Okehampton 4 V 40 SX586967 SW
Sidmouth 4 H 30 SY136879 SW
.0 Oxford 2 H 650 SP567104 London/SE
.0 Peterborough 5 H 1k TL127913 East
Bedford 10 H 3k TL130481 East
Cambridge 2 H 200 TL465593 East
.0 Pontop Pike 5 H 17k NZ148526 NE
Richmond Yorkshire 3 V 45 NZ168017 NE
Weardale 1 H 150 NZ025384 NE
Whitby 4 V 40 NZ904113 NE
.0 Redruth 1 H 10k SW690394 SW
Bodmin 5 H 10 SX071674 SW
Isles of Scilly 3 H 20 SV911124 SW
.0 Rosemarkie 2 H 20k NH762623 Scot
Ballachulish 2 V 100 NN059593 Scot
Fort William 5 H 1k5 NN117772 Scot
Grantown 1 H 400 NJ003267 Scot
Kingussie 5 H 35 NN769985 Scot
Kinlochleven 1 V 5 NN178630 Scot
Melvaig 4 V 25k NG757900 Scot
Oban 4 V 3k NM850290 Scot
Penifiler 1 H 25 NG489417 Scot
Skriaig 3 H 12k NG451408 Scot
.0 Rowridge 3 V 100k SZ447865 South
Brighton Whitehawk Hill 2 V 400 TQ330045 South
Ventnor 5 H 10 SZ567783 South
Weymouth 1 H 50 SY663778 South
.0 Sandale 4 H 30k NY266399 NE
.0 Sandale 6 H 70k NY266399 Scot
.0 Sutton Coldfield 4 V 100k SK113003 Mid
Churchdown Hill 1 H 250 SO880188 Mid
Hereford 2 H 50 SO524365 Mid
Northampton 3 V 100 SP759645 Mid
.0 Tacolneston 3 H 45k TM131958 East
Aldeburgh 5 V 25 TM442596 East
Manningtree 4 H 5k TM123295 East
.0 Wenvoe 13 V 200k ST110742 Wales
Abergavenny 3 H 30 SO244126 Wales
Carmarthen 1 V 20 SN412213 Wales
Kilvey Hill 2 H 500 SS672940 Wales
Llandrindod Wells 1 H 1k5 SO018634 Wales
Llanelli 3 V 15 SN510023 Wales
Llanidloes 13 H 20 SN947843 Wales
.0 Wenvoe 5 V 100k ST110742 West
Barnstaple 3 H 200 SS502289 West
Bath 6 H 250 ST769654 West
Marlborough 7 H 25 SU209688 West
Swindon 3 H 200 SU159825 West
.0 Winter Hill 12 V 125k SD660144 NW
Douglas 5 V 3k SC373746 NW
Kendal 1 H 25 ST540912 NW
Morecambe Bay 3 H 5k SD239791 NW
----------------------------------------------------------------

Tx Ch P ERPW mAOD OS IBA
----------------------------------------------------------------
20.0 Belmont 7 V 20k 430 TF217837 YTV
5.0 Black Hill 10 V 300k 565 NS828647 STV
5.3 Lethanhill 12 V 3k 346 NS438105 STV
5.1 Rosneath 13 V 100 137 NS258811 STV
5.2 Rothesay 8 V 1k 198 NS125690 STV
7.0 Black Mountain 9 H 100k 514 J 278727 Ulster
7.2 Ballycastle 13 H 100 185 D 077423 Ulster
7.1 Strabane 8 V 100k 569 H 393947 Ulster
9.0 Burnhope 8 H 100k 453 NZ184474 TTT
37.0 Caldbeck 11 H 100k 580 NY299425 Border
37.2 Richmond Hill 8 H 10k 223 SC335748 Border
37.1 Selkirk 13 V 25k 501 NT500294 Border
37.3 Whitehaven 7 V 100 174 NX992127 Border
31.0 Caradon Hill 12 V 200k 590 SX273707 TSW
8.0 Chillerton Down 11 V 100k 380 SZ475835 TVS
8.1 Newhaven 6 V 1k 117 TQ435006 TVS
1.0 Croydon 9 V 350k 253 TQ332696 Thames/LWT
13.0 Dover 10 V 100k 355 TR274397 TVS
12.0 Durris 9 H 400k 614 NO763899 Grampian
12.1 Angus 11 V 50k 526 NO394407 Grampian
4.0 Emley Moor 10 V 100k 551 SE222128 YTV
4.1 Scarborough 6 H 1k 231 TA009880 YTV
4.2 Sheffield 6 H 100 292 SK324870 YTV
28.0 Fremont Point 9 H 10k 238 CI908280 Channel
2.0 Lichfield 8 V 100k 443 SK164043 ATV/Central
2.1 Membury 12 H 30k 352 SU307763 ATV/Central
2.2 Ridge Hill 6 V 10k 341 SO630333 ATV/Central
14.0 Mendlesham 11 H 200k 354 TM122641 Anglia
14.1 Sandy Heath 6 H 30k 267 TL204494 Anglia
45.0 Moel-y-Parc 11 V 25k 553 SJ123701 HTV
56.0 Mounteagle 12 H 50k 447 NH639580 Grampian
56.2 Aviemore 10 H 1k 459 NH940126 Grampian
56.1 Rumster Forest 8 V 30k 434 ND197385 Grampian
29.0 Preseli 8 H 100k 552 SN172306 HTV
29.1 Arfon 10 H 10k 580 SH476493 HTV
29.2 Bala 7 V 100 351 SH969375 HTV
29.3 Ffestiniog 13 V 100 349 SH709392 HTV
29.4 Llandovery 11 H 100 352 SN831405 HTV
29.5 Llandrindod Wells 9 H 3k 489 SO018634 HTV
6.0 St Hilary 10 V 55k 339 ST026741 HTV
6.0 St Hilary (W) 7 V 100k 318 ST026741 HTV
6.2 Abergavenny 11 H 100 478 SO244126 HTV
6.1 Bath 8 H 500 207 ST769654 HTV
6.3 Brecon 8 H 100 266 SO030299 HTV
32.0 Stockland Hill 9 V 100k 450 ST222014 TSW
32.1 Huntshaw Cross 11 H 500 344 SS527221 TSW
3.0 Winter Hill 9 V 100k 648 SD660144 Granada
----------------------------------------------------------------


I take no credit for the data.. That goes to whoever went to all the pains to find and tabulate it.

Marion

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by sideband » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:13 am

Thanks for that Marion. Must have taken ages to type that lot in! I've make it a sticky.


Rich

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Refugee » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:48 am

Old Maplin catalogs used to have a UHF and FM list in the aerial section.
It would have been in the late 1970s or early 1980s.

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Terrykc » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:06 pm

No doubt the original was better laid out but the forum's software removes all multiple spaces which can make the data look more than a bit messy!

To make Marion's input easier to read and use I transferred the data to an Excel spreadsheet.

I then corrected tabulation errors manually (mainly caused by extra spaces in multi-word transmitter names) and converted the data into a table. This is the BBC data - the ITA data will follow.

Note that there is an extra heading in the original - mAOD (metres above zero datum) but no data, so I've deleted the column completely

TxChPERPWOSBBC
+Belmont13V20kTF217837North
Skegness1H60TF56 63North
+Blaen-Plwyf3H3kSN569756Wales
Dolgellau5V25SH727185Wales
Ffestiniog5H50SH709392Wales
Machynlleth5H50SH723003Wales
+Crystal Palace1V200kTQ339712London/SE
Bexhill3H150TQ729103London/SE
Eastbourne5V50TQ582021London/SE
Hastings4H15TQ806100London/SE
Hungerford4H25SU336713London/SE
Newhaven8V50TQ435006London/SE
Rye3H50TQ904198London/SE
+Divis1H35kJ 286750NIre
Ballycastle4H50D 77423NIre
Brougher Mountain5V7kH 350527NIre
Kilkeel3H25J 281180NIre
Larne3H50D 395037NIre
Londonderry2H1k5C 404176NIre
Maddybenny More5H20C 847376NIre
Newry4V30J 91221NIre
+Dover Swingate2V1k5TR334429London/SE
Canterbury5V30TR125596London/SE
Folkestone4H40TR229382London/SE
+Haverfordwest4H10kSN029262Wales
Ammanford12H20SN661109Wales
Cardigan2H450SN154441Wales
+Holme Moss2V100kSE095041North
Scarborough1H500TA009880North
Sheffield1H50SK324870North
Swaledale*13H100SD97 97North
Wensleydale1V20SD992907North
+Kirk o'Shotts3V100kNS858638Scot
Ashkirk1V18kNT470244Scot
Ayr2H50NS309171Scot
Campbeltown5V2k5NR707192Scot
Dundee Law2V10NO391313Scot
Forfar5V5kNO483409Scot
Girvan4V20NX211981Scot
Lochgilphead1V20NR848861Scot
Millburn Muir1V10NS378796Scot
Perth4V25NO131232Scot
Pitlochry1H200NN923565Scot
Port Ellen2V50NR338452Scot
Rosneath2V20NS258811Scot
Toward5V25NS124684Scot
+Les Platons4H1kCI925273SW
+Llanddona1V6kSH583810Wales
Holyhead4H10SH223825Wales
+Meldrum4H17kNJ761330Scot
Ballater1V10NO379954Scot
Bressay3V6kHU503387Scot
Orkney5V15kHY462045Scot
Thrumster1V7kND344456Scot
+Moel-y-Parc6V20kSJ123701Wales
Betws-y-Coed4H35SH825582Wales
Llangollen1H35SJ204421Wales
+North Hessary Tor2V15kSX578742SW
Bude4V100SS233069SW
Okehampton4V40SX586967SW
Sidmouth4H30SY136879SW
+Oxford2H650SP567104London/SE
+Peterborough5H1kTL127913East
Bedford10H3kTL130481East
Cambridge2H200TL465593East
+Pontop Pike5H17kNZ148526NE
Richmond Yorkshire3V45NZ168017NE
Weardale1H150NZ025384NE
Whitby4V40NZ904113NE
+Redruth1H10kSW690394SW
Bodmin5H10SX071674SW
Isles of Scilly3H20SV911124SW
+Rosemarkie2H20kNH762623Scot
Ballachulish2V100NN059593Scot
Fort William5H1k5NN117772Scot
Grantown1H400NJ003267Scot
Kingussie5H35NN769985Scot
Kinlochleven1V5NN178630Scot
Melvaig4V25kNG757900Scot
Oban4V3kNM850290Scot
Penifiler1H25NG489417Scot
Skriaig3H12kNG451408Scot
+Rowridge3V100kSZ447865South
Brighton Whitehawk Hill2V400TQ330045South
Ventnor5H10SZ567783South
Weymouth1H50SY663778South
+Sandale4H30kNY266399NE
+Sandale6H70kNY266399Scot
+Sutton Coldfield4V100kSK113003Mid
Churchdown Hill1H250SO880188Mid
Hereford2H50SO524365Mid
Northampton3V100SP759645Mid
+Tacolneston3H45kTM131958East
Aldeburgh5V25TM442596East
Manningtree4H5kTM123295East
+Wenvoe13V200kST110742Wales
Abergavenny3H30SO244126Wales
Carmarthen1V20SN412213Wales
Kilvey Hill2H500SS672940Wales
Llandrindod Wells1H1k5SO018634Wales
Llanelli3V15SN510023Wales
Llanidloes13H20SN947843Wales
+Wenvoe5V100kST110742West
Barnstaple3H200SS502289West
Bath6H250ST769654West
Marlborough7H25SU209688West
Swindon3H200SU159825West
+Winter Hill12V125kSD660144NW
Douglas5V3kSC373746NW
Kendal1H25ST540912NW
Morecambe Bay3H5kSD239791NW

Notes:
+ Main station
* Planned only

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Terrykc » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:44 pm

Here is the ITA/IBA table, including aerial heights this time!

I have re-sorted the list by main station and relay as I think most people will find the geographic order makes the table easier to use.

TxChPERPWmAODOSIBA
1 +Croydon9V350k253TQ332696Thames/LWT
2 +Lichfield8V100k443SK164043ATV/Central
2.1Membury12H30k352SU307763ATV/Central
2.2Ridge Hill6V10k341SO630333ATV/Central
3 +Winter Hill9V100k648SD660144Granada
4 +Emley Moor10V100k551SE222128YTV
4.1Scarborough6H1k231TA009880YTV
4.2Sheffield6H100292SK324870YTV
5 +Black Hill10V300k565NS828647STV
5.1Rosneath13V100137NS258811STV
5.2Rothesay8V1k198NS125690STV
5.3Lethanhill12V3k346NS438105STV
6 +St Hilary10V55k339ST026741HTV
6 +St Hilary (W)7V100k318ST026741HTV
6.1Bath8H500207ST769654HTV
6.2Abergavenny11H100478SO244126HTV
6.3Brecon8H100266SO030299HTV
7 +Black Mountain9H100k514J 278727Ulster
7.1Strabane8V100k569H 393947Ulster
7.2Ballycastle13H100185D 77423Ulster
8 +Chillerton Down11V100k380SZ475835TVS
8.1Newhaven6V1k117TQ435006TVS
9 +Burnhope8H100k453NZ184474TTT
12 +Durris9H400k614NO763899Grampian
12.1Angus11V50k526NO394407Grampian
13 +Dover10V100k355TR274397TVS
14 +Mendlesham11H200k354TM122641Anglia
14.1Sandy Heath6H30k267TL204494Anglia
20 +Belmont7V20k430TF217837YTV
28 +Fremont Point9H10k238CI908280Channel
29 +Preseli8H100k552SN172306HTV
29.1Arfon10H10k580SH476493HTV
29.2Bala7V100351SH969375HTV
29.3Ffestiniog13V100349SH709392HTV
29.4Llandovery11H100352SN831405HTV
29.5Llandrindod Wells9H3k489SO018634HTV
31 +Caradon Hill12V200k590SX273707TSW
32 +Stockland Hill9V100k450ST222014TSW
32.1Huntshaw Cross11H500344SS527221TSW
37 +Caldbeck11H100k580NY299425Border
37.1Selkirk13V25k501NT500294Border
37.2Richmond Hill8H10k223SC335748Border
37.3Whitehaven7V100174NX992127Border
45 +Moel-y-Parc11V25k553SJ123701HTV
56 +Mounteagle12H50k447NH639580Grampian
56.1Rumster Forest8V30k434ND197385Grampian
56.2Aviemore10H1k459NH940126Grampian

Note: + Main Station

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Merseyswimmer » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:34 pm

If anyone's interested, that tongue-twisting transmitter name Blaenplwyf (the correct way to spell the name of the village), the closest English pronunciation is "Blain - pluff"

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by sideband » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:30 pm

Merseyswimmer wrote: the closest English pronunciation is "Blain - pluff"


I always thought it was 'Blain - ploo -uf'


Rich

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Merseyswimmer » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:02 pm

sideband wrote:
Merseyswimmer wrote: the closest English pronunciation is "Blain - pluff"


I always thought it was 'Blain - ploo -uf'


Rich


Depends on your accent. Mine is Wirral, a mixture of Liverpool and Cheshire accents.

Likewise, Amlwch (Anglesey,) is pronounced "Amlock" here.

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Synchrodyne » Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:08 am

The development of the UK VHF transmitter network was an interesting case. It would seem that upon its completion, Band I was somewhat oversubscribed, whereas Band III might have been capable of accommodating a few more transmitters.

Originally, the BBC had planned on achieving national coverage by using all five Band I channels and some Band III channels. That is evident from this item from Wireless World, 1953 August.

WW 195308 p.365.tif

WW 195308 p.366.tif


The five “first tier” transmitters were all in Band I, but some of the “second tier” transmitters were to be in Band III, including Norfolk (Tacolneston) and Cumberland (Sandale). In the event, denied access to Band III (at the time and for around a decade afterwards), the BBC had to “shoehorn” these and others into Band I. I think that it was around 1963-64 when the BBC first used Band III.

The use of some Band III channels for its “first” programme was evidently part of an overall two-program plan, as recorded in Wireless World 1953 June.

WW 195306 p.291.tif


One way of looking at the “degree of difficulty” that the BBC faced with providing nationwide coverage using only the Band I channels is to compare its VHF TV network with its VHF FM Band II radio transmitter network, which was evidently less constrained by the needs of extensive channel re-use.

The five main TV transmitters (Crystal Palace, Sutton Coldfield, Holme Moss, Kirk O’Shotts and Wenvoe) were all omindirectional and all 100 kW erp, except Crystal Palace, which was 200 kW erp.

The five main FM transmitters (Wrotham, Sutton Coldfield, Holme Moss, Kirk O’Shotts and Wenvoe) were all also omindirectional and all were 120 kW erp. So except for the location disparity between Crystal Palace and Wrotham, at this level the networks were broadly comparable.

At the second tier level one starts to see differences, though. The second tier Band I TV transmitters generally had restricted power levels and most had directional radiators. Pontop Pike and Divis were both omindirectional, but only 12 kW. Rowridge was directional, with close to 100 kW for maximum lobe. North Hessary Tor, Tacolneston, Blaenplwyf, Sandale and Meldrum were all directional and ranged from 40 down to 3 kW erp for their respective maxima.

The second tier FM transmitters, however, were all omindirectional. Not only that, but two, Tacolneston and Sandale, were “full” power, at 120 kW, whilst the others (North Hessary Tor, Rowridge, Blaenplywf, Pontop Pike, Meldrum and Divis) were all “half” power, at 60 kW erp.

In part at least, it would seem that the polar diagrams of the second tier Band I TV transmitters were determined by the need to avoid their interfering with their respective co-channel main transmitters, even if the results were less than desired coverage in some cases. Thus there would have been more gaps to be infilled, requiring more low-power transmitters with concomitant even greater channel re-use. At first glance, that the BBC ended up with more (mostly Band I) VHF TV transmitters than did the ITA/IBA working in Band III only seems counter-intuitive, but the constraints of extensive channel re-use offer something of an explanation.

Re the Band II comparison, the fact that Band II “reach” is inherently less than for Band I was a factor in its favour in respect of channel re-use, plus of course the specific attributes of FM. There was a book (whose title I do not recall) from the early/mid 1960s that included comparative coverage maps for BBC 1, BBC FM, ITV and BBC 2 (Crystal Palace only). The commentary for the BBC FM map was to the effect that compared with BBC 1 TV, some shadows were already apparent.

The UK might have been the only country where vertical polarization for VHF TV was regarded as the norm, with horizontal as the alternative. (I am not sure about Ireland, though.) Elsewhere, horizontal was either exclusive or the norm, in the latter case with vertical as the alternative.

Cheers,

Steve

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Michael Watterson » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:27 am

I THINK Ireland used mostly Horizontal on Band I (1962 to 1999 625 lines and 3 x 405 sites)
Band III added (625 only) in 1978 for launch RTE2 (till 2012) seems to have been mostly vertical.

I have a list somewhere ... So I will check.

I have it saved somewhere..
This is missing only the band 1 channels. AFAIK the Band III and UHF never changed at all from 1978 till ASO except for additions of transmitters and relays.
http://www.geocities.ws/corkradio/tvch.html
Band III is Vertical for majority (six) with H used on four co-channel sites to reduce interference.

see also
http://www.ukfree.tv/mapsofvhf.php

 

Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Old Squirrel » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:05 am

Greetings all,
As Marion opened the subject of transmitters in VHF Bands 1 & 3 and Michael made mention of the Irish transmitters which were carefully chosen with the UK frequency planning authorities to avoid mutual interference it might make sense to include a list of them here with a channel spectrum chart.
I'm sorry I wasn't able to put the XLS file into the text as the tables are above by Terrykc so have attached it.
I tried it as a table but it wasn't viewable with 'preview'.
Best Wishes
Nigel
Attachments
RTE_channel_spectrum_small.gif
RTE tv channels.xls
(20.5 KiB) Downloaded 163 times

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Terrykc » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:10 pm

Old Squirrel wrote:... I'm sorry I wasn't able to put the XLS file into the text as the tables are above by Terrykc so have attached it.
I tried it as a table but it wasn't viewable with 'preview'.

Anybody can add a table:
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=5406

However, it ain't easy keeping track of all the commands!

So, let the PC take the strain and use my table generator ...:

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5444&p=56866

Here's your Excel sheet converted. Feel free to use the generator as much as you like!

RTE tv channels
From Technical Information Bulletin December 1980
Position obtaining at end of 1980Channel RTE1Channel RTE2Frequency band / GroupMAX ERP Kw Vision
MAIN TRANSMITTERS (625)
THREE ROCK (Dublin)29 Horizontal33 HorizontalUHF Group A25
CAIRN HILL (Longford)40 Horizontal43 HorizontalUHF Group B800
KIPPUREH Horizontal+ Transposer?VHF Band III100
MAGHERAB HorizontalH VerticalVHF Band I & III100
MT. LEINSTERF VerticalI VerticalVHF Band III100
MULLAGHANISHD VerticalG VerticalVHF Band III100
TRUSKMOREI HorizontalG HorizontalVHF Band III100
CLERMONT CARN (Carlingford)52 Vertical`56 Vertical•UHF Group C/D300
HOLYWELL HILL (North-East Donegal)23 Horizontal26 HorizontalUHF Group A20
TRANSPOSERS (625)°
ABBEYFEALEF HorizontalI HorizontalVHF Band III0.012
ACHILLE HorizontalH HorizontalVHF Band III1
CAHIRCIVEENF HorizontalVHF Band III1
CAPPOQUINH HorizontalE HorizontalVHF Band III0.25
CASTLEBARD VerticalF VerticalVHF Band III1
CASTLETOWNBEREE VerticalH VerticalVHF Band III0.25
CLIFDEND HorizontalF HorizontalVHF Band III1-00
CLONAKILTYF HorizontalI HorizontalVHF Band III0.63
CORK (Spur Hill)H Vertical+VHF Band III0.25
CORK CITY (Collins Barracks)39 Vertical49 VerticalUHF Group B0.165
CROSSHAVENF HorizontalVHF Band III0.13
CROSSHAVEN 255 Vertical59 VerticalUHF Group C/D0.25
DONNYBROOK C Horizontal + VHF Band 1 0.250
ENNISTYMONI HorizontalF HorizontalVHF Band III0.012
FANADF Horizontal *D Horizontal *VHF Band III2
FERMOYF HorizontalI HorizontalVHF Band III0.006
GLANMIREC HorizontalE HorizontalVHF Band I+ III0.05
GLENCOLUMCILLEE VerticalH VerticalVHF Band III0.006
GLENGARRIFF / BANTRYF HorizontalVHF Band III0.06
GLENGARRIFF / BANTRY 239 Horizontal49 HorizontalUHF Group B0.25
KILMACTHOMASE HorizontalH HorizontalVHF Band III0.006
LARAGH / GLENDALOUGHD HorizontalG HorizontalVHF Band III0.012
LISTOWELF HorizontalI HorizontalVHF Band III0.012
MONAGHAND HorizontalNo plans yetVHF Band III1
ROSSCARBERYF HorizontalI HorizontalVHF Band III0.012
SUIR VALLEYH VerticalE VerVHF Band III0.4
TRANSPOSERS (405 )•••
FANAD7 Horizontal•••VHF Band III1
MOVILLE12 Horizontal)•••VHF Band III2
LETTER KENNY6 Vertical)•••VHF Band III1

*** These three 405 line transopsers to be ceased as soon as replacement '625' service has been provided.
+ Lower power transposer being considered for RTE 2 to provide limited coverage in parts of Wicklow
* Not in service yet
Full details to be announced

 

Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Old Squirrel » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:39 pm

Thank you very much Terry, not only for converting the table for me but also for the code to convert future tables myself. I've downloaded your converter and after a few difficulties I learned to use it. I will post a comment to the thread about your Table Code Generator in Excel.
Thanks again for a fantastic time saver.
Best Regards
Nigel

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Terrykc » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:50 pm

Old Squirrel wrote:... I've downloaded your converter and after a few difficulties I learned to use it ...

Nigel, it is always difficult to know whether instructions for using such a tool are as clear to somebody else as they are to me!

I would appreciate it if you would describe what these difficulties were so that I can learn for the future ...

EDIT OK! I've now read your reply in the other thread. Thanks once again for the feedback.

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Synchrodyne » Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:02 am

In respect of the System I VHF channels, it is interesting that whereas those in Band III, D through J, are where one would expect them to be, those in Band I, A through C, are upshifted by 0.5 MHz.

Channel D had the vision carrier at 175.25, 1.25 MHz above the bottom edge of Band III (generally 174 MHz, although there were exceptions), which facet it shared with channels E5 and R6. In fact D through J share their respective vision carrier frequencies with R6 through R11.

One might have expected the three Band I channels to occupy 44 through 68 MHz, with channel A vision at 45.25 MHz, but in fact it was at 45.75 MHz. So A through C nominally occupied 44.5 through 68.5 MHz, at least by conventional reckoning.

A counter-argument though is that the System I 8 MHz channel with vision carrier at 1.25 MHz above the lower edge had no lower guard band, given its 1.25 MHz vestigial (lower) sideband, but on the other hand had an extended, 0.75 MHz upper guard band. If one, as it were, “centred” the carriers to provide the customary 0.5 MHz lower and 0.25 MHz upper guard bands, then the vision carrier would be 1.75 MHz above the bottom edge. By that reckoning, channel C would have covered 60 to 68 MHz and so would still have been completely within Band I.

Possibly then the 0.5 MHz upshift was in part chosen to get the three channels as high as possible within the band. Or maybe it was desired to have the channel C vision frequency, 61.75 MHz, aligned with that of channel B4. There was a precedent for this kind of alignment; channel E2A, used in eastern Austria, had its vision carrier at 49.75 MHz, the same as OIRT channel R1, and it was evidently chosen to minimize interference with Eastern European transmitters operating on that channel. R1 and thus E2A both had a 0.5 MHz upwards offset, as did Italian channel A, but the reasons in these cases is not readily apparent.

Cheers,

Steve

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Synchrodyne » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:54 am

Here is a BBC TV transmitter list from 1964.

BBC TV Stations 196405 p.01.tif

BBC TV Stations 196405 p.02.tif


I have several of these, plus maps, covering from circa 1960 and into the 1970s, mostly BBC, but I think one or two IBA. If they are of interest for the library, I should be happy to do higher quality scans for transmission by email.

Cheers,

Steve

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Terrykc » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:51 am

Synchrodyne wrote:... If they are of interest for the library, I should be happy to do higher quality scans ...

Steve, those scans look pretty clean so you may find that saving the originals as .PNG files will produce quite small high quality results ...

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Synchrodyne » Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:12 am

Hi Terry:

Thanks.

Those were the examples that I managed to get down to size whilst retaining readability. They were actually converted from original .jpeg format, around 1 Meg, to black-and-white .tiff form with CCIT4 compression. Agreed that original scans saved in .png form are a bit smaller. But with any editing, such as cropping or straightening, the .png files grow quite a bit and even with maximum compression in Irfanview, can’t be made small enough.

Meanwhile I have managed to get some of the maps down to size for my next posting in the series.

Cheers,

Steve

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Synchrodyne » Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:53 am

The attached coverage maps illustrate the commentary that I provided in my Ides of March posting, upthread.

The first map refers to BBC TV, the second to BBC FM, both in 1958.

BBC TV Coverage 195803.tif
BBC FM Coverage 195808.tif


Firstly, the fact that Band II signals have less reach than Band I signals of about the same radiated power may be seen by comparing the service areas for Sutton Coldfield and Holme Moss. In both cases the respective service areas overlapped, but the overlap was definitely smaller in the FM case. Similarly the overlap between Sutton Coldfield and Wenvoe was noticeably smaller in the FM case.

Secondly, the constraints imposed by Band I channel sharing can be seen in the Tacolneston (Norwich) case. FM, with a full-power (120 kW) omindirectional transmitter, just reached Peterborough whereas BBC TV, with a medium-power directional transmitter, clearly fell short. Tacolneston FM reach to the south was a bit better than the TV case, too. One may suppose that had the BBC had a clear channel available, Tacolneston TV would have been a full power (100 kW in Band I) omindirectional radiator.

The southeasterly displacement of the London FM transmitter (Wrotham) as compared with the TV transmitter (Crystal Palace), coupled with the shorter reach of Band II, can be seen as having created an anomaly at Oxford. Whereas it was in the Crystal Palace and Sutton Coldfield overlap zone for TV, it was in “no-man’s land” for FM. Hence the Oxford transmitter was 22 kW erp (maximum) for FM, but 0.65 kW (maximum) for TV, the latter apparently more-or-less a token.

On Band I and Band III erp relativities, early on the US established maxima of 100 kW for the low band (Band I) and 316 kW for the high band (Band III) with, I think, the intent of equalizing signal strengths at the edges of the normal service areas. On the other hand, Australia went with equal erps for Bands I, II and III, and as I recall, all of the Sydney VHF transmitters (channels 2, 7, 9 and 10) were 100 kW erp. In New Zealand, Band I main transmitters were 100 kW erp, Band III main transmitters 300 kW, so more-or-less the American model was followed.

In the next map, showing early ITV coverage, the reduced reach of Band III is apparent. There were no overlaps amongst Croydon, Lichfield and St. Hilary, whereas the three corresponding BBC TV transmitters all overlapped. The upside of that is channel re-use was probably easier due to lower co-channel interference in general, and much less incidence of the unusual tropospheric conditions that at times afflicted Band I. That said, I have recently come across a Wireless World 1954 article that noted that RTF had experienced unusual winter-time interference between its Paris and Lille TV transmitters, both of which shared Band III channel F8A. Half-line offsetting was required for amelioration.

ITV Coverage circa 1958.tif


Cheers,

Steve

 

Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Crusty Burke » Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:58 pm

By the late 1980s Kippure had added a full power RTE 2 service on Channel J, which was also used for RTE 2 at Moville.

Later the Channel J transmissions at Kippure were switched off and RTE 1 moved to Channel E and RTE 2 moved to the old RTE 1 frequency on Channel H.

Meanwhile the Donegal 405 line sites switched to VHF 625 in 1983, moving again to UHF 625 by 2000.

There are no more Band I & III TV transmissions from RoI since analogue switchoff in 2012.

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Michael Watterson » Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:36 pm

Band 1 ended I think 1999.

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by colly0410 » Tue May 13, 2014 12:50 pm

The UK might have been the only country where vertical polarization for VHF TV was regarded as the norm, with horizontal as the alternative. (I am not sure about Ireland, though.) Elsewhere, horizontal was either exclusive or the norm, in the latter case with vertical as the alternative.

Cheers,

Steve[/quote]

I remember reading somewhere that horizontal polarisation on band 1 picked up less ignition interference than vertical, they discovered this in the 40's (I think) & that's why it's the norm for high powered TX's round the world. (I think I mentioned this on another website a while ago) I can understand Alexandria/Crystal Palace using vertical pol as the BBC wouldn't have known any better in 1936, but I wonder why Sutton Coldfield, Holm Moss, Wenvoe & Kirk o Shotts didn't use horizontal pol & secondary TX's like Pontop Pike & Divis ect use vertical pol?

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Focus 2 » Fri May 16, 2014 9:17 am

colly0410 wrote:I wonder why Sutton Coldfield, Holm Moss, Wenvoe & Kirk o Shotts didn't use horizontal pol & secondary TX's like Pontop Pike & Divis ect use vertical pol?


Probably to reduce the possibility of interfering with continental services which were mainly horizontally polarised.

Brian

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by Synchrodyne » Sat May 24, 2014 4:07 am

It’s an interesting question.

As said, presumably there were cogent reasons for the original use of vertical polarization at Alexandra Palace (AP).

In 1941, NTSC(I) opted for horizontal polarization, but the case was not an overwhelming one, more in the nature of a small preponderance of evidence. Still, the NTSC’s choice was a reason to look seriously at horizontal polarization.

Logically, when AP re-opened, it retained vertical polarization.

Extension of the TV service to the provinces was a separately considered case, and the decision was to stay with the basic 405-line system, but with a change to VSB transmission. Logically the transmitter polarization issue would have been considered at the time, at least by the BBC, and probably by the PMG. Given that the PMG would be licensing the transmitters, then polarization would surely be one of the licensed parameters.

Meanwhile, the BBC had determined that horizontal polarization was preferable for FM, both at 45 and 90 MHz. In both cases the benefit over vertical polarization in terms of resistance to ignition interference was around 10 dB. (Note that “FM” (not “VHF”) here was a deliberate choice. It is evident that the BBC had figured back in 1945 that FM was the answer to the then as yet unasked question, and had wanted to start the Third Programme as an FM network. The VHF-AM option was a red herring, with BREMA (I think pushed by Stanley of Pye) as the main protagonist.)

That said, the BBC was also on record as saying that the modulation choice was less critical for TV sound, given that in most circumstances as one moved towards the edge of the service area the picture would fail before the sound. So limited weighting might be applied to the FM polarization outcome when considering the TV case; it was a supplementary reason, not a primary reason to consider horizontal as the primary polarization.

Exactly what would happen with European TV would have been unknown at the time of the putative deliberations on provincial TV. In fact transmitter assignments were not worked out in full detail until the 1952 Stockholm meeting. But an educated guess would have been that Europe would follow the NTSC lead and opt for horizontal polarization as the primary choice. But in any event, Europe more-or-less would have been forced to fit in with whatever pattern had been established in the UK in respect of transmitters where mutual interference was possible. So I’d place this as a “maybe” for using vertical polarization.

Probably it would have been realized back in the late 1940s that with the limited number of channels available, then as the transmitter network grew, it would eventually be necessary to use both horizontal and vertical polarizations. Notwithstanding that horizontal was in general somewhat better than vertical, nevertheless vertical was not inimical to providing an adequate service. In fact one might have mustered the argument that the horizontal advantage would be better reserved for the lower-powered transmitters. The main transmitters, whose power outputs were not much constrained by co-channel interference considerations, would be delivering very high field strengths across the adjacent conurbations that they served, at which levels the polarization issue was moot. The second and lower level transmitters would often have outputs (in any given direction) that were constrained for co-channel interference avoidance purposes, and so field strengths in parts of the service area could be lower than was otherwise desired, such that the horizontal advantage was actually beneficial.

But I don’t think one can outrule simple inertia as the reason why Sutton Coldfield et seq were vertically polarized. That is, AP had set the precedent, and there was no strong case for change as far as the main transmitters were concerned.

Cheers,

Steve

 
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Re: VHF System 'A' Transmitter Data..

Post by colly0410 » Sat May 24, 2014 8:11 pm

Thanks for a very interesting reply Synchrodyne.

When my Canadian cousin came to visit us in 1968 he was fascinated with the vertical pol H & X aerials on the Nottingham skyline, he said where he lived in Ottawa everyone had a rabbit ears aerial on top of the telly, must have been a strong signal area. When I rented an apartment (on the tenth floor) in Miami (1989) the telly had a rabbit ears aerial, it got almost perfect pictures apart from slight ghosting on all five local VHF stations on ch's 2, 4, 6, 7 & 10, there were some snowy stations on 5, 9 & 12. all UHF stations were a bit snowy though..

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