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Home PABX install

 
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Home PABX install

Post by crustytv » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:03 pm

I decided for a bit of fun and just sheer geeky-ness to install a home phone system, I could have opted for a cordless solution but this is more fun.

So I bought this from a chap who had upgraded a small office, It's a PANASONIC KX-T 30810BE EASA PHONE PABX. A modular switching phone system that comes with the door opening module KX-T30866E and the door phone adapter KX-T30860E. It also has music on hold with the master switchboard phone and many other features.

Phones KX-T 7050E, KX-T 7130E & KX-T7425 came supplied, I will also be adding some of my vintage phones as extensions. The System was recovered from a working installation, it is in good condition as per the photos. I've tested it this morning all the extensions ports, that is they ring, can dial out and have transmission.

Connecting a line to the system allows me to dial 9 from an extension to pick up the line and dial out (albeit in loop dial which I presume is the default) and all the phones ring to an incoming ring. The system has the ability to connect three BT lines and 8 extensions. Each room in the house excluding the loo but including the workshop, will have a phone and assigned extension number, so just like an office you can call around the house. My son thinks this is great as he can call me in the workshop to make him a cuppa :roll:

I'm going to start the infrastructure wiring at the weekend and then get down to programming the system, I've got the manual and you have to program the system from the master phone KX-T 7050E. I'm most looking forward to getting the MOH working so when I get those annoying cold callers I will put then on hold with Greensleeves........revenge is sweet.

I've sited the unit in a little cupboard under the stairs, this will be good for routing wires and keeps it all hidden away.

pana1.jpg

pana2.jpg

Patch_panel.jpg

phones.jpg

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by Michael Watterson » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:20 pm

I had an Asterisk based system for a while. You can use WiFi, corded, DECT, VOIP or wired phones on it. Using ethernet to ATA VOIP modules (phone socket one side and ethernet the other), DECT handsets (or regular £5) and cheap PC running Clark Connect distro of Linux is the cheapest and simplest solution.

It can integrate with POTS PSTB, ISDN or Broadband VOIP for the outside calls (or all three).

http://www.asterisk.org/
http://www.clarkconnect.com/

Now our Microwave link based Broadband with cable modem has two dedicated ATA sockets using VPN to the ISP for VOIP phone and local geographic numbers. 2 DECT basestations with 2 phones each. Local calls are 1/10th price of Eircom and calls on the ISP's VOIP network are unlimited free. Quality is good enough for Fax even though we have no physical phone lines at all.

In my last job I designed some VOIP systems and tested VOIP on 4G and "Cable" (DOCSIS) based VOIP over Microwave and UHF systems.

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by Katie Bush » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:21 pm

Very nice :thumbr:

I have a BT "Two-Plus-Eight" PABX .. An SDX10 2+8 digital PABX .. A couple of SDX40 4+36 .. An SDX InDex 100 digital PABX .. and an AVAYA InDex (Avaya took over SDX some years ago) system capable of handling upto 1000 extensions! (I love that one) but couldn't quote model number without taking a look.

SDX were one of Britain's leading telecom system manufacturers at one time, even making hansets for BT.. Remember the BT Viscout? That was an SDX design, and the basic phone was the SDX FT-1, reworked for BT.

Somewhere, I have three brand new, never used, SDX cabinets, with PSUs, backplanes, and MDFs, that were kept as spares by their former owners, but were never needed.. These old SDX (Sterling Digital eXchange) systems are very reliable, bullet proof, user programable (using either; "Kermit" or MS Windows "Hyperterminal") and to some dgree, user serviceable/repairable - Interestingly, the most common failure is dried up electrolytics in the extension cards' output line sections.

I just love to tinker with these things, and the SDX10, being the first one I got (given free from Cash Converters) has to be my favourite.. Unfortunately it's a digital system, and only works with the matching SDX FT-(x) series phones.

The BT "Two-Plus-Eight" is just perfect for a home setup because it uses conventional GPO/BT phones of either LD or DTMF types, and that means I can play with my GPO/BT 700 series phones.

Needless to say, I can't use all of this tackle at the same time, so much of it is just sitting around waiting for the day....

I wonder, Chris, if there would be enough interest to make a "Telephones And Telegraphy" section worthwhile? I'd certainly like to see such a category - please?

Marion

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by crustytv » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:29 pm

Katie Bush wrote:I wonder, Chris, if there would be enough interest to make a "Telephones And Telegraphy" section worthwhile? I'd certainly like to see such a category - please?

Marion


Your wish is granted :thumbl:

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by crustytv » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:19 pm

Good point Jeffrey and I have implemented as you suggested :thumbl:

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by crustytv » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:24 pm

Anyone know anything about telephone wiring?

All my phones work fine on the system including my 1960's pulse dial and a whole load of other vintage phones. However one phone the KX-T7425 does not. I've been told it due to my infrastructure wiring being 4 core based and the phone needing 6 core to work.

Anyone know a way around this that does not involve a six core re-cable or it looks like one panasonic phone goes in the bin which is a shame.

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by Michael Watterson » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:27 pm

Did you download the manual for the phone?

https://www.google.ie/search?q=+KX-T7425

There are very many specialist feature phones in 1980s and later that only work on specific PABX systems.

1985 to 1995 it was really specialist Analogue PABXs and CO systems and then from later 1990s everything was ISDN based, even if line(s) was/where analogue.

Maybe it's S-bus ISDN into a TA or PABX.

KX-T7425 Digital 24 Button Speaker Phone

Compatible with Panasonic KX-TD816, KX-TD1232, KX-TD500 Phone Systems

Can be reused on Panasonic KX-TDA50G, KX-TDA100, KX-TDA200, KX-TDA600, KX-TDE100, KX-TDE200, KX-TDE600, KX-NCP500 and KX-NCP1000 Telephone Systems on a Digital Extension Port, Requires Larger or Extra Power Supply depending upon system


I presume your PABX is old POTS analogue if old pulse phones work. By 1986 the Mitel PABXs shipped where I worked had Analogue OR Digital extension cards/ports.

The KX-T7425 seems to be currently still sold and quite expensive.

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by crustytv » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:02 pm

Reading the manual for the PABX, apparently it converts pulse to tone.

It further states that 4-core wire is required for all extension wiring either direct connection to the unit or via the distribution frame. The outer pair are high low data and the inner pair are the A/B wires. Standard telephones can be wired with just 2 core using A/B.

No mention of six core so the KX-T7425 will not work with this system, I had no idea as I know nothing about phone systems so that will teach me to check in future. Never mind, don't suppose anyone (Marion) has spare phones like the KX-T 7050E or KX-T 7130E surplus to requirements, I can swap for a very clean KX-T7425 :=D

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by Terrykc » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:16 pm

Looking at the User Manual for the KX-T7425 ...

http://www.wedophones.com/Manuals/Panas ... ctions.pdf

... it seems to suggest that there are two different ways of connecting the phone for different systems - perhaps you need to try the alternative approach ...?

KX-T7425.png

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by crustytv » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:22 pm

Hi Terry,

Already have, still no joy. I've also replaced the cable from the phone with a known working one, again no joy. It's dead Jim.

I did try a cable which I think was from a fax, that did not give a dial tone but I could hear a hiss in the phone and when the buttons were pressed they could be heard. Which is why I wondered if I have to wire up an RJ11 to BT in a funky way for this to work. All I've been able to ascertain is it requires 6 core to function not 4.

Frankly not being a telecom buff I'm like a caveman poking a puter :=D

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by Michael Watterson » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:06 pm

It could be a digital only version of the handset. Or needs some magic incantation to work on POTS.

Note DTMF (buttons with tones) is NOT digital but POTS (Plain Old Telephone System).

BT jacks and wiring ARE funky and weird. Not the same as anyone else's system. Israel uses (or did) the BT jack, but wired the same way as an RJ11.

Normal RJ11 uses the two inner most wires, so does Israel BT jack. But UK BT jack (if only using 2 wires) uses the NEXT two more outer wires. Also if the handset is really for the BT system the handset will NEVER ring on an RJ11 jack system without an RJ11 to BT adaptor with a capacitor in it.

Some fax machines are wired so a straight RJ11 to RJ11 works OR a straight RJ11 to BT jack (Israeli handset cable). These almost always WON'T work on a VOIP ATA or PABX (that uses RJ11) without cutting the two outer wires.

If your PABX is designed for RJ11 socket & plug extensions, then some "true" BT phone handsets won't work without the BT to RJ11 adaptor. If you wire BT sockets on a PABX that is to the everywhere EXCEPT UK RJ11 system, then you will have issues. Only put BT sockets on BT lines or a PABX that uses BT standard.

Normally structured wiring uses an 8 way RJ45 plug and Cat5e cable. This allows an RJ11 plug with 2, 4 or 6 wires to fit the RJ45 wall sockets.
At the central patch panel you patch cables EITHER to the RJ11 sockets on the PABX or the RJ45 sockets on your ethernet Switch.

Really BT jack sockets should ONLY be used on a BT line. All wiring for PABX OR ethernet should be Cat5e. (Shielded if no conduits).

Normally each workstation point has 2 or 4 RJ45 sockets on the wall plate. At the patch panel an RJ11 patches one to PABX and an RJ45 cable one or more to the ethernet.

Only a phone extension with no PABX in the last 15 years would use 4 core Cat3 rather than Cat5 or Cat5e.

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by Katie Bush » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:26 pm

oldticktock wrote:..... don't suppose anyone (Marion) has spare phones like the KX-T 7050E or KX-T 7130E surplus to requirements, I can swap for a very clean KX-T7425 :=D


Hi Chris,

Sorry, I only have SDX/Avaya (digital) or BT/GPO (analogue) phones..

I do have (somewhere) a system with no brand name on it, which appears to use Panasonic phones, but it's way, way, older than the system you have.

Marion

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by crustytv » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:02 pm

Spent today getting the phone system wiring installed, I had to drill to to the outside and run a 20M long lead to for the workshop. The rest were internal runs hidden in trunking or routed under skirting which meant carpet lifting.

I used 4 core cable and wired all the boxes as per BT, however when I fired the system up nothing worked, no internal dial tone. I then spent a while studying the wiring and found I have to wire the extension sockets for the PABX differently to a standard BT box. All the boxes were revisited, opened, the wires routed to the correct terminals. Now the Internal calling worked with all features too. I then set about installing a slave BT socket for the Line 1 in to PABX. Now all the phones ring when BT line is called, transfers can be made and dial 9 to get an outside line works.

Just need to sort music on hold as I am determined to put all those cold callers on hold with some suitable music.

I've left the hall phone as a direct connection in case of power fail so we have a phone. I believe one of the extensions will still work if a power fail occurs, I need to read the manual to find out if this is true.

The workshop phone is my good old 746 (see below), I've done a little diagram showing the setup and the phones in use. I have another 7030 on its way
phone_system.jpg

pan1.jpg

746.jpg

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by Michael Watterson » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:15 pm

found I have to wire the extension sockets for the PABX differently to a standard BT box


BT are the ONLY people in the world that wire the way they do. I said earlier that PABX systems use RJ11 or RJ45 wiring, should not even have BT jack sockets.

Most PABX in last 15 years are wired with Cat5 cable. (four pairs (= 8 wires) even if only 1, 2 or 3 pairs are used for PABX) and RJ45 jacks. The two inner most pairs are the default phone pair so an RJ11 jack always works in the the RJ45 socket.

I probably explained this too poorly earlier. I spent 1993 to 2008 working either with Structured Wiring or along side people selling / installing / using it.

The only thing that should ever be BT standard of connections and socket is stuff on the BT line.

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by crustytv » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:43 pm

Michael Watterson wrote: I said earlier that PABX systems use RJ11 or RJ45 wiring, should not even have BT jack sockets.


I probably explained this too poorly earlier.


No Michael you explained it well, I'm just a numb nuts and forgot you had mentioned it :oops:

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by sideband » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:18 pm

oldticktock wrote:
Just need to sort music on hold as I am determined to put all those cold callers on hold with some suitable music.


How about 'Comfortably Numb' by Pink Floyd or at the other end of the scale how about 'They're Coming To Take Me Away Ha Ha' by Napoleon XIV

My reasoning is, you have to become numb to the callers or they drive you mad !


Rich

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by crustytv » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:13 pm

What would be really funny would be to divert them to a call routing plan.

If you wish to speak about billing press 1
If you wish to sell me something press 2
for anything else press 3

All paths lead to....
"Due to a high demand for the occupiers attention you have been placed in a queue" then they are passed to music on hold, interspersed with occasional condescending comments I've yet to conjure up. Maybe interesting facts ( to me anyway) about vintage television :=D

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by sideband » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:31 pm

Now that is funny!


Rich

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by Katie Bush » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:35 pm

oldticktock wrote:What would be really funny would be to divert them to a call routing plan.

If you wish to speak about billing press 1
If you wish to sell me something press 2
for anything else press 3

All paths lead to....
"Due to a high demand for the occupiers attention you have been placed in a queue" then they are passed to music on hold, interspersed with occasional condescending comments I've yet to conjure up. Maybe interesting facts ( top me anyway) about vintage television :=D



I do belive you can do exactly that, with the SDX/Avaya 'InDeX' system (provided you have the appropriate cassette installed), and I think even the humble SDX 'Sterling Digital' has that ability, but needs some external hardware.. So I would imagine your Panasonic could be configured likewise.

In any event, you can always record anything you want to a CD and input that via the PABX's MOH input jack.. My favourite would be the first few bars of "Spring" from Vivaldi's "four Seasons" (badly arranged and played on an early MIDI synthesiser, limited to four channels) interspersed with a mind numbing array of "Thank you for holding... Your call is important to us... Please continue to hold and an advisor will be with you shortly" and so-on.

Marion

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by Niall » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:08 pm

My BT Ultimate 106 has just died. I've had a look but can't find the fault, not helped by the fact that circuit information doesn't seem to be obtainable, and it uses a heavily populated double sided pcb.

Last time this happened I bought another unit from ebay (the one which has just gone) but they seem to be unobtainable now as they are long out of production.

I have ordered a cheap replacement, unfortunately it doesn't seem possible to get integrated voicemail like the 106 without going to a second hand office system which I don't have space for.

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by crackle » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:43 am

I used to manage a network of Herald/Pentara and larger Ferranti Omni's and later fully digital and IP systems. So I had often considered getting an old PABX for home use. But have you considered a Dect cordless system, I now have 5 handsets on our one and you can call, talk and transfer between handsets. Not vintage by any means, but very convenient.
Mike

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by Niall » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:38 pm

Aargh, no. People will NOT put them back on the chargers or leave them in the relevant rooms.
Also, this house has a peculiar effect on UHF RF devices, they tend not to work randomly. I suspect some sort of local transmission, but have never found it.

 
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Re: Home PABX install

Post by Katie Bush » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:42 pm

A good old Sterling SDX-10 (or 20) is peferct for home use, or if you're into old GPO (or British Telecom) phones, a BT "Two Plus Eight" is even more perfect.

The SDX is a digital system from the mid eighties and needs dedicated SDX-FT series phones, but has a lot of advanced features which can be useful.. These SDX systems can be had quite cheaply via the bay and do come up fairly often (ignoring the optimists who think they're worth hundreds of pounds!) for £30 to £50 for the switch, and often include a few phones.. You could/can get analogue extension cards, but this results in only one analogue extension for two digital extensions that could otherwise be.

The BT is from about the same period, but is a much simpler hybrid which uses any BT compatible telephone, loop disconnect and DTMF, but has nowhere near the functionality of the SDX.. These are like rocking horse doo-doos and highly prized by the people who own them, but if you just drop lucky, as did I, you can find them, sometimes in local junk auctions.. Mine cost me £3, and would appear to be in working order (I've only tested it with two phones at a time).. These are absolutely perfect for operating your old GPO phone collection.

If You're more adventurous, you could go for an SDX "InDeX" (later rebranded as AVAYA InDeX).. These go back to the early/mid nineties and are extremely flexible, for use use with dedicated InDeX phones, or with analogue DTMF.. These are in plentiful supply via the bay, as are the phones and system cassettes (plug in modules).. This was the natural successor to the SDX 10 and 20 etc system, and can handle many more incoming lines and extentions than it's predecessor.

Marion


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