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Digital motors?

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Digital motors?

Post by colly0410 » Thu May 14, 2015 8:58 pm

Saw an advert on TV about Dyson cleaners, it claims it has a digital motor in it. Been on the Dyson website but does not tell you much about it. Could anyone enlighten thicko me please?

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by kalee99 » Thu May 14, 2015 9:19 pm

Hi,

I suspect sales hype :aak Most probably it will be a standard type of motor driven by an electronic pulse width modulation circuit.
Next thing they will be re inventing the wheel :aak
Paul.

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by Cathovisor » Thu May 14, 2015 9:33 pm

It seems to be a brushless DC motor with built-in control electronics: rather like the ones that drive the fans on your PC but on a somewhat grander scale.

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by Refugee » Thu May 14, 2015 10:08 pm

That is totally pointless since the cleaner itself rarely lasts more than 30% of the life of the brushes before spare plastic parts become expensive or NLA.
Dysons are a good source of spare brushes for vintage food mixers if found dumped in the street.

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by sideband » Thu May 14, 2015 10:20 pm

kalee99 wrote:Hi,

I suspect sales hype :aak Most probably it will be a standard type of motor driven by an electronic pulse width modulation circuit.
Next thing they will be re inventing the wheel :aak
Paul.


Exactly! 'Digital motors' have been mentioned in other domestic appliances. Some things that I've safety tested have 'digital motors'. As kalee says, nothing more than a standard motor with built-in control electronics. Most likely a sealed unit and totally unserviceable. During safety testing I had to saw one open to check creepages and clearances.

Sales hype, 'digital' being one of the latest selling 'buzz words'.

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by colly0410 » Thu May 14, 2015 10:40 pm

I thought it may be hype. Another thought that crossed my mind was it used insulated gate bipolar transistors (IGBT's) to convert DC to AC to run an AC motor. The Nottingham tram uses that system, it makes a very strange whining noise when accelerating & slowing down, never heard it called digital though..

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by Cathovisor » Thu May 14, 2015 11:01 pm

colly0410 wrote:I thought it may be hype. Another thought that crossed my mind was it used insulated gate bipolar transistors (IGBT's) to convert DC to AC to run an AC motor. The Nottingham tram uses that system, it makes a very strange whining noise when accelerating & slowing down, never heard it called digital though..

Different thing, though. They're variable-frequency inverters, very common in traction applications now - take AC from overhead line, transform and rectify it, then convert it to 3-phase AC to drive the motors.

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by cobaltblue » Thu May 14, 2015 11:01 pm

I had sort of assumed (maybe wrongly) that it refers to a switched reluctance motor.

These are brush-less and the control is done with a microcontroler.

No idea if this is what Dyson are using though :aad

Cheers :aad

Mike T

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by Refugee » Thu May 14, 2015 11:06 pm

Those IGBT devices can be found in later model underground trains where they load the motor to act as braking and the generated power is returned to the power supply. Early ones used resistors and dumped a lot of waste heat. It is called dynamic braking or engine braking. Very early trains had friction brakes and the advertising companies helped pay for the friction brakes banished as the asbestos dust made all the billboards dirty too quickly. The dust was all gone by the time they was discovered that it caused cancer.
The resistor type was tried on a few Blackpool trams and failed in a spectacular way due to too many closely spaced stops and maximum demand in hot weather. It was called a Coronation tram.

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by Cathovisor » Thu May 14, 2015 11:19 pm

cobaltblue wrote:I had sort of assumed (maybe wrongly) that it refers to a switched reluctance motor.

These are brush-less and the control is done with a microcontroller.

No idea if this is what Dyson are using though :aad

Cheers :aad

Mike T

The EEV Blog discussed this very claim and one of the BTL commentors did indeed suggest it was a Switched Reluctance Motor.

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by Lloyd » Thu May 14, 2015 11:24 pm

I actually have some of those Dyson handheld's! they are pretty good. I also have a couple of the motors in bits, and can tell you it's very much like a DC brushless fan, just a bit more beefed up. If I get chance, I'll post up some pictures of it's innards tomorrow, or over the weekend.

They are controlled by a PIC, can't remember the number, but it looks like that drives 4 surface mounted transistor things, connected to 2 coils of pretty thick wire. These are on some laminations, which then go to a quite small but very powerful cylindrical magnet.

Lloyd.

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by ntscuser » Thu May 14, 2015 11:33 pm

kalee99 wrote:Next thing they will be re inventing the wheel :aak


They already did!

Dyson Ballbarrow, 1974:

Image

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by Refugee » Thu May 14, 2015 11:42 pm

When I still lived with my parents we had one of those wheelbarrows and none of us were all that impressed with it. Hit one little stone on a hard surface with that hard plastic wheel and it would stop dead.

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by sideband » Fri May 15, 2015 11:37 am

kalee99 wrote:Next thing they will be re inventing the wheel :aak
Paul.


Only if it's digital though....

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by Herald1360 » Sun May 31, 2015 12:50 am

Refugee wrote:When I still lived with my parents we had one of those wheelbarrows and none of us were all that impressed with it. Hit one little stone on a hard surface with that hard plastic wheel and it would stop dead.


Sounds rather like the effect of a stray ty-rap on the lab floor on a 'scope trolley. :ccf

Never knew that Dyson ball was hard though- It looks like it should be pneumatic

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by Refugee » Sun May 31, 2015 3:50 am

It was like a large cistern float and if anything slightly harder.
I was thinking of the day that someone walked into the warehouse at a computer refurbishing place I worked at with a little stone stuck on there shoe. CRT monitors go pop when they hit a power float concrete floor from 15 feet off a forklift with hard wheels and then there is a mess to clear up. I just legged it towards the cleaning store before it even hit the floor to get the equipment I knew I would need next :ccb

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by Till Eulenspiegel » Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:23 pm

Look at this! Two Dysons dumped at the back of the shop. Get yours now before someone else nicks them.

All sorts of strange things go on at the back of these shops. Remember this topic?

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/show ... hilips+CTX

Till Eulenspiegel.
Attachments
000_0034.jpg

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by Refugee » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:00 pm

Fly-tipping Dysons is getting more common than old fridges.
two Dysons or one fridge and it is free dumping :aah

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by Cathovisor » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:10 pm

Is it just my perception or do an awful lot of Dysons get dumped?

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by Refugee » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:11 pm

Yes in every pile of fly tipped rubbish :cch

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by ntscuser » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:13 pm

I was thinking of buying a cheap Dyson clone, mainly because I hate changing bags. Are they any good?

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by Refugee » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:15 pm

They still have a filter that needs to be replaced/cleaned.

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by marc » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:45 pm

ntscuser wrote:I was thinking of buying a cheap Dyson clone, mainly because I hate changing bags. Are they any good?


I don't know about the new/latest models of Dyson or their clones but we have a Dyson DC04 which is now approaching 17 years old and I have to say that it has been a darn good workhorse from day one and always does a good job on the carpets and has very powerful suction via the built in hose, in fact I would go as far to say that it's still as good as the day we bought it !
The only thing we need to do with it apart from emptying the dust canister is wash the sponge filter once every six months, it only takes a few minutes under the tap then let it dry and pop it back in the vac.

However there is one fly in the ointment with the DC04's....some were built abroad (usually lime green version :-o ) and are a pile of cheap flimsy poop compared to the British built ones.

I have heard that the guys in the know about all things vacuum, seem not so keen on subsequent models such as the DC07 onwards but if you could find yourself a good second hand British built DC04 I would thoroughly recommend it. :aad

Marc.

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by Till Eulenspiegel » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:38 pm

Maybe I should take a look at those vacs that are at the back of the shop. If they are made in Britain grab 'em. Made ausland, don't bother.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
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Re: Digital motors?

Post by Rebel Rafter » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:45 pm

Hi, from RR. Hi, all. I and a friend of mine have had nothing but trouble with dysons. I found a DC01 dumped on a riverbank and the only fault was a failed connection and I cleaned it all up and reassembled it and fitted a new belt and filters only to find it was far too critical about what kind of dirt I could suck up with it. If it was the wrong kind of stuff it went straight past the cyclone and straight into the filter and blocked it in about three seconds! And they say cyclones"don't lose suction", well in my experience they certainly do and they lose it completely because the cyclone gets all blocked up with dirt and then it has to be all stripped down which is hard work with dysons as the ones I've worked on have very tight fitting parts. And I've found that they tend to be made from very brittle plastic which breaks far too easily. I'd expect something far better for the price they sell for. I won't get another cyclonic cleaner, I prefer the good old traditional vac, straight down the pipe and straight in the bag, no nonsense! I've just recently blown about £90 on a new Panasonic upright with a bag. nice simple thing, no electronics, just good old fashioned kit, only loses suction when the bag's full. RR.

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