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POLL: Lightbulbs

For discussions about technology and people in technology.

What lightbulbs do you use for general house lighting?

Incandescents 'Rough Service'
7
26%
Halogen
1
4%
CFL
6
22%
LED
12
44%
Something else, Candles? :aaj
1
4%
 
Total votes : 27

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by nuvistor » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:19 pm

CFL's throughout the house and I have that many spares through energy companies sending freebies it may be a while before I try LED's.
Ordinary CFL's in most room apart from my hobby room were I try to paint pictures in watercolour, that one is a daylight type of CFL.
Frank

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Mark Hennessy » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:29 pm

Jamie wrote:Not all "improvements" are better though Mark. If we were all racing to be at the cutting edge of technology we'd not be collecting and restoring all the vintage radios and TVs we do... We'd have the latest Smart TV and replace it every few years (Or every YEAR if black friday is anything to go by) :zx:


Everything has to be judged on merit.

Some LED lamps are not very good. Others are very good indeed, and some are better than incandescent lamps. Quite simply, you haven't seen those yet.

Your repeated statements about LED lights are generalisations based on your experience so far, but, as I have patiently tried to explain on more than one occasion, LEDs are not all the same. There is nothing inherent in the technology that you can dislike; rather, it's the implementation of the examples you've seen. Perhaps flicker, perhaps colour temperature, perhaps spectral distribution, perhaps beam pattern and fringing, perhaps a combination of them all?

There's a type of bias called "anchoring" that might be relevant here, and there's more than a hint of confirmation bias here as well. That's why I try to explain some of the facts - so that you can be better informed and make decisions that are based on the engineering reality rather than fallible human instincts. One day you'll thank me :bba

The only problem with LED lights is knowing how to choose a good one. But as the technology matures, they will all get better and better, and providing you buy from a reputable brand, they will all be reasonable at least. Clearly, there are some horrors out there - YouTube is full of entertaining and occasionally scary reviews of them...

CFLs were merely a stop-gap while LEDs matured. They are on their way out.

Your comparison with TV sets is a bit "apples and oranges". We have alternatives to incandescent lamps because we collectively have to do something about our energy consumption. Quite right, too. Legislation throughout the world is driving this - we might not like some of the results, but we're in a transition period - LEDs are maturing and will make up a large percentage of the world's lighting. And when something else eventually replace those, you can bet that folk on forums will be moaning about the phasing out of LED lights!

But TV set manufacturers have different imperatives. They are legally and morally obliged to generate profit for their shareholders. That's it. As a result, they have to make products that people want to buy, and create demand through marketing and advertising. All they care about is making the sale in a cut-throat market. Everything else is secondary. Do not underestimate the power of marketing and the fallibility of the typical consumer (we've all been seduced into buying stuff, even if we don't admit it!). But that is why equipment today is made with short design lives and little support - manufacturers have to keep shifting product. And don't forget that there is a massive supply chain that also relies on this - distributors and retailers usually make more profit each than the manufacturer (I could quote figures, but would probably get into trouble!).

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Cathovisor » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:40 pm

Mark Hennessy wrote:(Anyone who spent time at Wood Norton might recall that Vale Wing has a series of very long corridors.

Errrr...... Vale Wing?

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Mark Hennessy » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:44 pm

Cathovisor wrote:
Mark Hennessy wrote:(Anyone who spent time at Wood Norton might recall that Vale Wing has a series of very long corridors.

Errrr...... Vale Wing?


Was it not called that when you were there?

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Cathovisor » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:55 pm

I was there 84-86...?

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Mark Hennessy » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:01 pm

It's the block with the TV studios in. It's possible that Studio C hadn't been built by then, but A was most definitely there...

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by sideband » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:02 pm

Mike makes some interesting points. Personally I've never had a problem with LED lighting. Having said that I don't like the LED street lamps that are starting to spring up all over the place. For me they are too harsh and don't seem to scatter the light like good old sodiums did (or do if you're lucky enough to still have them in your area). We've tested some street lamps at work. They are a marvel of modern technology and very economical compared to the old sodiums and no doubt, the savings in operation will be considerable. I do think they would benefit from an amber filter/diffuser. Maybe it's an age thing. As you get older, your eyes are slower at responding to light changes.

For domestic use though, I think the LED is excellent and will be around for quite a while.

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Jamie » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:51 pm

sideband wrote:Mike makes some interesting points. Personally I've never had a problem with LED lighting. Having said that I don't like the LED street lamps that are starting to spring up all over the place. For me they are too harsh and don't seem to scatter the light like good old sodiums did (or do if you're lucky enough to still have them in your area). We've tested some street lamps at work. They are a marvel of modern technology and very economical compared to the old sodiums and no doubt, the savings in operation will be considerable. I do think they would benefit from an amber filter/diffuser. Maybe it's an age thing. As you get older, your eyes are slower at responding to light changes.

For domestic use though, I think the LED is excellent and will be around for quite a while.


I can do a side by side comparison as our main road still has sodium, whereas some of the off roads have LED and outside my house has a CFL which is ironically constantly failing. The old sodium a with timers seem to solider on forever.

Maybe I'm not destined for the modern world haha, I'll go and buy an island..

I think a lot of it is personal preference and I think my eyes must be super sensitive and picky with light.

Another thing I dislike about LEDs is their use in car headlights.. Driving along looking slightly to the left as you do away from headlights and BANG LED's on an Audi blind you. Then an older car comes past with halogen headlights and it seems so much gentler

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Cathovisor » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:14 am

Mark Hennessy wrote:It's the block with the TV studios in. It's possible that Studio C hadn't been built by then, but A was most definitely there...

I think all there was was Studio A when I was there! It had Link 110s...

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Cathovisor » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:23 am

sideband wrote:Mike makes some interesting points. Personally I've never had a problem with LED lighting. Having said that I don't like the LED street lamps that are starting to spring up all over the place. For me they are too harsh and don't seem to scatter the light like good old sodiums did (or do if you're lucky enough to still have them in your area).

Directly outside my house I have an old low-pressure sodium - the ones that astronomers can at least tune out of the spectrum! - whilst elsewhere there are some high-pressure sodium, the ones that are 'whiter' in appearance but still a bit yellow.

LED lamps have appeared in the village I come from; the main advantage I can see is, apart from the lower power, that they don't spill upwards which is good - anything that reduces the orange glow of the night sky is good IMO. They do seem harsh though - because I think they're actually too bright.

Yet I still remember the eerie glow of the old mercury lamps - which made your skin look greenish...!

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Paul_RK » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:35 am

Jamie wrote:
Maybe I'm not destined for the modern world haha,..

Don't worry, many of its features will probably remain optional :qq1 We get countless 'phone calls offering advantageous terms for replacing our boiler, when the only boiler I possess is a ten-gallon Burco in the garage that's not been used in decades. I suspect the 160 watts from the central light fitment when it's on in here (four 40 watt bulbs) are sometimes sufficient to dissuade me from making use of the 500 watt, or thereabouts, Belling Champion by my knee, or in the coldest conditions from augmenting it with one, two or three elements of the big one across the room: but I suppose I'll never know.

From the Comfort Zone,
P1010719cz.jpg

Paul

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Mark Hennessy » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:43 am

Jamie wrote:Another thing I dislike about LEDs is their use in car headlights.. Driving along looking slightly to the left as you do away from headlights and BANG LED's on an Audi blind you. Then an older car comes past with halogen headlights and it seems so much gentler


They might be HID rather than LEDs.

I know that Aldi have the "Matrix" scheme on the A8, but I've yet to see that on the road around here. Has that trickled down to the lesser models yet?

Headlights generally are a problem these days. But it's not so much the technology; rather, it's the sharply-defined cut-off pattern that modern cars have. You go from pitch black to full brightness in a few inches. It's all very well on a flat, straight road, but when cars meet on a curved road, or over a bump or hill, there's nothing you can do to avoid being caught...

Older cars with their much softer cut-off were preferably because your eyes weren't having to constantly adapt to the large changes in brightness levels. But overall, things were dimmer.

The other problem is styling trends that have caused headlights to become smaller (in terms of area on the front of the car), which means that their intensity is much higher. A good example to explain this would be to compare a fluorescent tube to a spotlight; the tube will do an excellent job of throwing light around an area, but you can comfortably look at it for as long as you wish. Whereas a spotlight will be too intense to look at (please don't try!), yet might well do a worse job of lighting an area. My LED bike lights are a good example of that - I have to keep them pointing down, because they will kill your night vision more effectively than a car on main beam (that's 1W of LED vs 120W or more of halogen). Intensity per square metre...

Another problem with age is that your lens becomes diffuse and much more sensitive to glare. This makes night driving very difficult. Luckily I don't think I'm noticing this yet, but my (younger) wife has been complaining about it for a while.

OT, but when I drove a car from the same era as Jamie's, I found that the headlights were always a bit feeble, despite being decent halogen H4s. This was a 1984 mk2 Golf. One day, I measured the voltage drop between the battery and the terminals on the back of the bulbs and found that I was losing a total of 6 volts in the wiring and switches. I found a relay box in a scrapyard (from a Rover 100 IIRC) and some heavy wire, and made a new loom. The next night drive was amazing! The lights were white rather than yellow, and I could see for miles. One of the best projects I did for that car... At the time, you could buy such a thing as an accessory - but I had no cash. No idea if they are still available?

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Cathovisor » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:45 am

Interesting thermometer, Paul - not seen one of those before?

As an aside, this is from the NHS website at http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/winterhealth ... pWell.aspx

  • If you have reduced mobility, are 65 or over, or have a health condition such as heart or lung disease, you should heat your home to at least 18C. It's a good idea to keep your bedroom at this temperature all night if you can. During the day you may prefer your living room to be slightly warmer. Make sure you wear enough clothes to stay warm.
  • If you're under 65 and healthy and active, you can safely have your house cooler than 18C, if you're comfortable.
  • You can also use a hot water bottle or electric blanket (but not both at the same time) to keep warm while you're in bed.

By contrast, I once set up one of those programmable RF-linked thermostats for someone. When I said "Shall I set the room for 20°C for late afternoon and evening?" the response was a sharp "Certainly not - no less than 23°C."

Americans are convinced we all live in under-heated fridges in Europe.

Getting (slightly) back on-topic, my car has H7 halogens of the enhanced variety, given the amount of driving on unlit roads I do (to wit: much of the A1(M)!) which are okay and I prefer them to HIDs (or indeed LEDs, which are offered on some Volkswagens). The problem I have is the glare from needlessly bright DRLs. And I remember driving cars with 40/45W prefocus tungstens, or The Prince Of Darkness's sealed beams. The eye thing Mark mentions earlier is another point: at my last eye test I was told that I have the early signs of cataracts forming. When I mentioned this to my GP, he just said "yeah, you're about the right age for it to start. The key thing is the rate of change."

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Paul_RK » Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:08 am

Cathovisor wrote:Interesting thermometer, Paul - not seen one of those before?.

It's branded Hurseal - http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Hurseal - but is otherwise indistinguishable from the much more commonly met with Rototherm model, except in pitching the Comfort Zone five degrees lower.

Yes, I've come across those NHS recommendations myself and resolved to reflect on them when the time comes. For now, I'm 56 with no particular health conditions, and generally find anything from around 52-3 F/ 11C agreeable enough: I suppose I just like winter to be colder than summer, indoors as well as out, and the resultant heating bills are a bonus.
Last edited by Paul_RK on Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Cathovisor » Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:14 am

Would this be the same Hurseal, I wonder? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401028388673

And here's a rather nice Rototherm: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151895028047

I ought to consider lowering the temperature of the radiator in my bedroom. Although the central heating is nice (not having had it for over twenty years) I do miss the comfort that the little 750W Champion used to give the bedroom of a cold night.

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Paul_RK » Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:24 am

Yes, that Hurseal - same logo - presumably the thermometers were bought from British Rototherm. Much of the latter's business seems to have been in presentation thermometers engraved with various companies' names, for gifts to their clients, but the Hurseal is the only variant dial I've come across. I've a 750 watt Champion on bedroom duty here, but have been thinking in terms of something larger, maybe even the 2250 watt, to make the room rapidly comfortable between the onset of Economy 7 and bedtime.

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Cathovisor » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:23 pm

The 1500W Champion is not much bigger than the 750W, whilst the 2250W is pretty big indeed.

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Paul_RK » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:53 pm

I wouldn't say that - it's less than an inch taller than the 92A. The base is lower and wider, but that's so with older Champions generally and seems a good thing to me as it tends against any likelihood of their being knocked over, as does their greater weight. I've long had a little domestic fleet of the familiar and final models, 91A (750W) and 92A (1500W), and have added to it more recently with a 79 (very small, no switch, no lamp), an 83A (2250W) and an 82 (older pattern 1500W).

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Cathovisor » Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:45 pm

I've got a 79 too - tiny little thing, aren't they?

You might like this, Paul - an extract from the Belling 1941-42 catalogue.
Belling 41-42 page 8-9.jpg
An extract from the 1941-42 'Belling' catalogue.

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Paul_RK » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:37 pm

Excellent, thank you very much. I've been meaning to measure the 79's resistance for a better guess at its consumption, which I hadn't thought would be quite as low as 250W. Interesting that the 82 and 83 are represented there by images of the older No.2 and No.3, with push-button switching - those must be rare birds indeed. Then, the first Belling Champion a Google image search throws up, https://images.ehive.com/accounts/3274/ ... _hpr_l.jpg , is a very early one in black with silver trim which has found its way to Wairarapa Regional Settlers Museum in NZ.

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Cathovisor » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:50 pm

The first mention of a Champion I've found is in the Trader magazines in 1940 - available, if memory serves, in bronze or cream and green enamel but operated with footswitches, as shown.

One wonders just how small a volume of air a model 79A on half heat would keep warm.

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Jamie » Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:16 pm

Mines 750W but cant remember what model mine is, It's not quite as ornate as those on the image (handle is flat and the base isn't shaped like those)

EDIT: Ah mines the 91A like this but less rusty! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/37147880 ... ue&ff13=80

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Herald1360 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:37 am

Cathovisor wrote: And I remember driving cars with 40/45W prefocus tungstens, or The Prince Of Darkness's sealed beams.


Arrrrhh when I were a lad it were PoD's 700s with 36/42W prefocus bulbs. Sealed beams were noticeably better. First car I remember being driven in had 36W single filament adjustable bulbs. On dip, the offside lamp went out and the reflector on the nearside one was tilted down by a solenoid.

I think the worst for dim glim I actually drove behind were 40/45W prefocus tungstens with yellow bulbs in a French Renault 12.

The poll: I've got a right old assortment from a couple of 150W GLS in the loft (only get lit perhaps once a month for a few minutes), a 300W halogen flood out the front that gets used even less since its role was usurped by a decorative CF of some description on a new build garden room, 36W 4ft fluorescents in kitchen and bath, dimmable CFs in the dining room, more CFs in standard lamps and table lamps, a couple of 70W long fluorescents in the shed (nice and bright in there!), a few not much used 35W halogen downlighters to an assortment of LED GU10 downlighters and an LED mother/daughter uplighter.

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by colly0410 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:37 am

20 odd years ago I lived in a rented house with an card electric meter, when I went on hols for 2 weeks I turned the electricity off. I was surprised how much the money went down just to cover the standing charge. You can reduce your energy use but the standing charge always rears it's ugly head..

 
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Re: POLL: Lightbulbs

Post by Wolfie » Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:52 am

We have one of those electricity monitors, even with everything we use day to day turned off there is a residual 300W (up to 500W) that just never goes away, it's down to burglar alarm, cameras, DVR, cordless phone, Sky box, MODEM/router, Electricity monitor, all those hidden little doodads etc..

When we moved in here, I think the previous owners had simply gone and cleared someones shelves of 60W GLS bulbs.. they were fitted everywhere except for two 6' Florrys in the kitchen... we had to wear sunglasses around the house (Bathroom had a 3 light fitting =180W!).

I've put CFLs in wherever the fittings would allow and tried CFLs and LEDs in some 4 (halogen) light bars in the kitchen, CFLs are way too slow to warm up and the LEDs are just poxy. giving a concentrated circle of illumination leaving the rest of the place dark.

But, I'm not going into car headlights (again).. there just isn't enough server space for the Forum.

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