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TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

 
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TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by Till Eulenspiegel » Tue May 10, 2016 5:26 pm

Let's say there was a sudden change attitudes of the TV buying public and rental was back in vogue just like it was in the early seventies, would any ex TV repair persons wish get back into the game again. I for one would certainly not because if you thought the job was awful then I'd reckon it would be twice as bad now.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by Michael Watterson » Tue May 10, 2016 7:22 pm

It's not going to happen!
Compare price of 42" ordinary HDTV in real terms after inflation with
1936 Radio
1946 Radio
1956, 66, B&W TV
1976, 1986 Colour TV.

Or it's only 100 cups of coffee bought in high street.

Also most expensive part is screen.

There would only be PCB panel exchanges and a new TV is often less than screen plus labour.

This is one scenario we don't have to worry about.

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by crustytv » Tue May 10, 2016 7:49 pm

:aam

I think you missed the point Michael, David was posing a hypothetical scenario. We all know its not going to happen, do try to play along :qq1 :bba

If the TV trade came back and it was CRT based, I'd be front of the queue to be a service engineer. Alternatively if anyone has a time machine and wouldn't mind lending it. :aal

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by PYE625 » Tue May 10, 2016 7:53 pm

All I seemed to do in the mid-late 80's was to trawl rental sets backwards and forwards to the workshop.
Lugging blinking 26 inchers around on my own was no fun.

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by Till Eulenspiegel » Tue May 10, 2016 8:12 pm

PYE625 wrote:Lugging blinking 26 inchers around on my own was no fun.

Better than wasting your money with gym membership. Although I have to admit the last of the 32" "true flat screen" CRT sets were not much fun. The ultimate heavy horror was the Samsung "Slimfit". Now that set was heavy, even I fazed to the opportunity of lifting one of those in and out of houses, and I'm a tough Geordie.
There are firms out there still renting TV set, the Forbes concern comes to mind, but honestly who'd rent a TV these days?

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by AidanLunn » Tue May 10, 2016 8:25 pm

CrustyTV wrote::aam

I think you missed the point Michael, David was posing a hypothetical scenario. We all know its not going to happen, do try to play along :qq1 :bba

If the TV trade came back and it was CRT based, I'd be front of the queue to be a service engineer. Alternatively if anyone has a time machine and wouldn't mind lending it. :aal


It depends on when. In the period we mostly collect sets from (say, late 1940s to early 1980s), yes. In fact, that timeframe most of us cover is about the sort of timeframe someone just entering the trade in their late teens/early 20s in the late 1940s would cover assuming they were to leave the trade at approaching retirement age.

Early 2000s, when panel swapping was becoming more common due to even those CRT TVs becoming disposable, not at all. I know it happened on 1970s TVs, but that was due to ease of servicing, not down to manufacturers or retailers not wanting to bother repairing a set down to component level due to the time and money taken repairing a set that was designed to be more disposable than the set it probably replaced. A Thorn 9000 wouldn't be designed to be disposable, an early 2000s "Daewoo" or Vestel-made TV or somesuch most certainly would be.

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by Lloyd » Tue May 10, 2016 8:33 pm

Thinking about it from the renter's point of view, with the rather poor reliability of some of the SMPSU capacitors, and the backlights on LCD sets, renting a set could be worthwhile! Certainly for people on low incomes who might only be able to afford a set on credit anyway, better to pay monthly and get the upkeep of the set included, rather than pay monthly and have it pack up just out of warranty.

I don't think it'll happen, you'd never make any money with these modern flat screen things! Still, there'd be plenty of sets passing through the workshop for power supply caps, and not to mention cracked LCD panels after the kids kicked a ball at it..

As for the Samsung Slimfit's... what if they had taken off better than LCD/plasma and they had got bigger! 50" CRT anybody?! :ccf Imagine the bang it'd make if you dropped it..... :bba

Regards,
Lloyd.

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by colourmaster » Tue May 10, 2016 8:58 pm

Hi David
Fifteen to twenty service calls a day fixing vestels .
It doesn't bear thinking about !
Regards.
Gary.

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by Till Eulenspiegel » Tue May 10, 2016 9:06 pm

it's worth bearing in mind that last of the CRT sets weren't all that nice either what with all those programmable devices in them. It is not all that long ago since such sets like the Vestel 11AK47 were on sale and now it's unlikely you'll ever see one of those again, thank goodness.
Way back in 2000 I was having EPROM problems with a few of the last Tatung CRT TVs, the G and H series. I contacted the then still active Tatung service department about readjusting the set. The answer was "be prepared to spend a few hours for the adjustments". My question to the guy was, " how long did it take to program the set on the production line" Only 30seconds! Production worthy sets but not service worthy.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by Red_to_Black » Tue May 10, 2016 9:12 pm

405 fan wrote:Hi David
Fifteen to twenty service calls a day fixing vestels .
It doesn't bear thinking about !
Regards.
Gary.


I don't know :bba Vestel Crt sets were very fixable and the parts were reasonably priced too, the circuits almost text book/application note, I made a reasonable living servicing Vestal CRT sets at the time.

I tended to get a lot of the new (just out of warranty) sets in, chassis with no track record or known fault history to date, mainly trade repairs, my (self employed) job was to pin down the new faults which later became stock faults as the sets aged, I also got my fair share of older chassis with unusual or new for that chassis faults.

These sets were far easier and cheaper to repair than the late model Sharp, Sony,Thomson, Philips and Pansonic CRT sets that I also got in with weird/unusual faults.

By offering trade repairs to other shops (the last throw of the dice wrt TV repairs for me), I got all the nasty awkward faults, it was interesting though all the same. :cca

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by Till Eulenspiegel » Tue May 10, 2016 9:22 pm

405 fan wrote:Hi David
Fifteen to twenty service calls a day fixing vestels .
It doesn't bear thinking about !
Regards.
Gary.

The ultimate nightmare! In the Flying Dutchman the Mariner was forced to sail the high seas for ever.
Imagine for TV engineers who have transgressed the punishment will be fixing LCD TVs for ever!

Hi Loyd,
There was a 36" flat faceplate CRT made in the early 2000s. Can't even estimate the weight of those, 75Kg?

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by sideband » Tue May 10, 2016 9:34 pm

Till Eulenspiegel wrote:the Forbes concern comes to mind,


My God are they still on the go? They seem to have been around forever.....

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by Till Eulenspiegel » Tue May 10, 2016 9:36 pm

Red to black wrote:
405 fan wrote:Hi David
Fifteen to twenty service calls a day fixing vestels .
It doesn't bear thinking about !
Regards.
Gary.


I don't know :bba Vestel Crt sets were very fixable and the parts were reasonably priced too, the circuits almost text book :cca

Hi Baz,
11AK19 was OK and the 11AK37 was also a very nice chassis, was used by Toshiba. 11AK33 was a high spec chassis and was also very good. Also the 11AK30 for small screen TVs.
All were fixable. Comprehensive service manuals were still available. Haven't seen any of these sets for ages. at least they kept the service department going and profitable. Loose money on LCD repairs.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by Till Eulenspiegel » Tue May 10, 2016 9:38 pm

sideband wrote:
Till Eulenspiegel wrote:the Forbes concern comes to mind,


My God are they still on the go? They seem to have been around forever.....


They certainly are it seems: http://www.forbes-rentals.co.uk/?gclid= ... 0wod9WoErw

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by Jayceebee » Tue May 10, 2016 9:45 pm

I was still in the trade until 5 years ago and still enjoyed it up to a point and yes, Vestels and the like could be repaired to component level, there is nothing like the buzz you get finding that awkward or intermitant fault. Even dealing with ICs having 400 odd pins with a 0.4mm pitch, BGA (Ball Grid ICs), capacitors and resistors no bigger than sugar granules, with the equipment, manuals and spares I would be back at the bench tomorrow. Dealing with the general public of today, software/firmware/bug issues, No thanks!

The downsides were if the set failed under warranty the customer didn't want a repair, they wanted a brand new replacement and knew how to work the system to achieve this. Software bugs are now common place and trying to pesuade manufacturers (Yes, we had a route to some of the big names, even Vestel) to accept this was like banging your head against a brick wall. Sometimes the updates when they arrived, often months later made matters worse or more likely introduced new bugs.

Today I work in EPOS, I still repair stuff a wide range of equipment but nowhere near to the level I used to and do miss it. I still come into contact with the general public but generally it's to say "Sorry this lane is under repair" even though I may have the innards of a PC laid out on the belt. :aab
Last edited by Jayceebee on Tue May 10, 2016 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by nuvistor » Tue May 10, 2016 9:49 pm

Not for me, I would not do it again, I got out because I could not earn a decent wage and saw correctly, unusual for me, the writing on the wall for the trade.
The thing I missed most was the customers, I had to work with very few difficult ones, virtually no dirty houses to visit all very nice people. I realise not everyone had that experience. I did not have 15 calls a day to do, more like 8 plus workshop time as well, perhaps that's why I could not earn the money. Leaving for a better job, less stress, more pay and benefits, pension, health care longer holidays. Leaving the trade in around 1980 was for me the best thing and did not look back.
Frank

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by Michael Watterson » Tue May 10, 2016 10:05 pm

CrustyTV wrote::
If the TV trade came back and it was CRT based, I'd be front of the queue to be a service engineer.

That's even crazier.
Besides the last generation of CRT sets while easy access were IC gobblers (mostly Vestel*). SMPSU based anything is horrific to service too.

Why not wish for all valve and B&W only. Or even Band I TRF only.

[*With about 40 change notices. Of course easily repaired if you have loads of all the parts.]

You've got rose tinted specs on. Though it beats sorting out a malware infested Win 10 Computer.

Rental died long before WS and Vestels though. Last legs 30 years ago.

By offering trade repairs to other shops (the last throw of the dice wrt TV repairs for me),

The last to go shop in Limerick survived on that and recycling unwanted repaired sets to the 10,000 Limerick Students.
Actual rental must have ended about 25 years ago here.

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by Till Eulenspiegel » Tue May 10, 2016 10:14 pm

Hi Frank,
And yet the 1980s was the best decade for my shop, plenty sales, TV repairs and the mainstay for the shop TV rentals was still going well although by the start of the next decade it was becoming apparent the glory days were over. I renewed the shop lease in 1993 for another twenty years. It was still worth keeping the shop going well up to 2004, after that year sales of TVs was falling off because of the supermarkets. I'm still in there but it's hard going. No TV rentals now.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by Red_to_Black » Tue May 10, 2016 10:15 pm

Even the 11AK45 was ok, I only ever bought an eeprom for each variant once :qq1 . I had/have a home made programmer, if a set that I didn't have an eeprom for(not just Vestal) came in for something else I would take a copy of its eeprom for my library, this saved a lot of money.

The likes of semi conductors (diodes and the like) generic replacements (which is all Vestal used at the time anyway) were obtained in quantities of hundreds for a fraction of the cost of the wholesalers, eg. a Vestal part number 1N5403 might cost say £1.33 +VAT from say CHS, other manufacturers part number might be more, I was paying about 3 pence each in quantities.
with this type of diode specifically I only stocked the higher version, eg I only kept UF4007 in stock as this fitted all of the UF400X lesser versions, likewise for the 1N400X series, I had a veritable production line going.

You couldn't always do this though, I remember paying about £22 :bbd for a special line transistor, ironically for a 36" Panasonic, I did replace the Lopt at the same time though, as it was 50-50 that the transformer was the cause, the lopt for that set cost about £70 + the dreaded.
Sony specials could be more.

The 11AK 19 suffered from a dodgy batch of BA159 diodes that measured ok but broke down under load, if I got a 11AK19 with strange tripping faults, after finding the PSU was at fault, then simply replacing all the BA159 diodes in the PSU would more often than not fix it, various versions of the chassis had different numbers of these fitted.
The first few times much time was spent tracing the fault/s, after a while the penny would drop that these diodes in various positions of the PSU were "iffy" I think I replaced every single one at different times on different sets, eventually I just replaced the lot.

Likewise on the dreaded ICC9, these suffered badly with "iffy" BC84X and 85X sm transistors, I think again I must have replaced every one of theses devices at one time or other, if some strange faulty stage had an associated BC84X or BC85X sm transistor in it then by replacing these more often than not fixed it, the Thomson/Ferguson IDC2 chassis also suffered with this affliction.

I did a lot of Thomson stuff from the ICC5 onwards, mainly because I did not mind them and most engineers hated them, like wise with Sharp most engineers would gladly off load these on to me, later Sony stuff as well came my way a lot.

The best thing about trade repairs is that you are isolated from the public, and almost all repairs were accepted (up to a point), obviously if the parts required cost more than the set was worth then not.

This business model sadly didn't work with the flat panel stuff though. :aai

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by nuvistor » Tue May 10, 2016 11:07 pm

Hi Till,
Perhaps I should have had my own shop, the shop owner did well, the shop stayed open another 10 years but I would not have done as well there as I did elsewhere.
I just saw TV's getting more reliable and my services would not be as wanted.
Perhaps I should have stayed, maybe it could have worked out but the job I got was excellent and I cannot turn the clock back. I did 20 years in the TV trade then 30 in computing from Mini computers running large databases to full movement flight sims. Then networks with routers firewalls and servers of various operating system etc.
So quite happy with my employment.

Frank

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by Till Eulenspiegel » Tue May 10, 2016 11:33 pm

Red to black wrote:
I did a lot of Thomson stuff from the ICC5 onwards, mainly because I did not mind them and most engineers hated them, like wise with Sharp most engineers would gladly off load these on to me, later Sony stuff as well came my way a lo

This business model sadly didn't work with the flat panel stuff though. :aai

I didn't do badly with the ICC5. The most common model was the Ferguson 59P7, the set that had a Philco Predicta look about it. Actually the 51P7 is the 21" version has similar styling and employed a Thorn designed chassis, the TX98. To be honest I didn't think it was all that good.
The ICC7 wasn't all that either. The ICC9 was a strange thing. I had all of these on rental and to tell the truth I'd could live with them but LCD TVs are a different matter.
Those BA158/9 diodes were often trouble in Nokia TVs.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by Till Eulenspiegel » Wed May 11, 2016 9:33 am

Google "TV Rental" and you'll there is still a good number of firms renting out TVs.
http://www.dialatv.co.uk/customer/who-are-dial-a-tv

Many firms rent out washing machines. No thanks to that, I wouldn't want to get involved with that sort of thing.
I'll have to find something else to do with my time.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by raditechman » Wed May 11, 2016 1:01 pm

There is a company not too far from me that still does television rentals, I know there TV engineer. I see their vans around occasionally, but I think they make more from washing machines now. I wish them well and I hope they continue but it is a tough business now.
http://www.rmtv.co.uk/6-tv-rental

John

 
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Re: TV rental revival. Let's hope it never happens!

Post by nuvistor » Wed May 11, 2016 3:58 pm

I think a lot of the rental market is from university students, rent for the 9 months or so they are at college.

Frank


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